SPEAK OUT: WJ's First Ever Debate

31 المشاهدات· 24/06/21

Wessex Jamaat
مشتركين

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Al Mahdi Madrasah brings to you Wessex Jamaat’s first ever debate!
Saturday 8th May 2021, 2pm

We have an exciting panel of speakers lined up to debate on the motion:
'This House believes there can be no Western Muslim identity'.

This will be an interactive debate, with an opportunity for the audience to engage with the speakers. Please do tune in with your families to support the speakers and judges!

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Transcript

[4:29]good luck guys that's when we start doing our smiling exercises to

[4:54]all of our viewers our aunties our uncles our brothers our sisters

[4:59]moms and dads thank you so much for tuning in today uh

[5:02]hopefully we're joined by our national and international family uh i am

[5:07]very delighted to welcome you all to westermart's very first debate brought

[5:12]to you by almaty madhursa debating is an art and many of

[5:17]our wessex family have risen up to the challenge before i introduce

[5:20]you to our exciting lineup of speakers i would like to express

[5:25]our sincere gratitude to the participants who have helped us shape today's

[5:30]debate and this was based on a consultation we had had at

[5:33]the start of the process it was quite long drawn out so

[5:36]we do appreciate your patience but you have helped us lay the

[5:38]foundations for west extremats debating so thank you very much whilst it

[5:43]is a shame that it is not an in-person event which sadly

[5:48]removes any epic mic drops from the equation we must tip our

[5:53]hats to their tech consultants a huge thank you to our tech

[5:57]team uh brothers muhammad bashafar and amir nasser for providing us with

[6:01]the tools we need to make our virtual events seamlessly successful no

[6:05]pressure and finally to shape fazerbas for nurturing and encouraging the initial

[6:12]idea supporting us through this whole debate process the motion for today's

[6:16]debate is this house believes that there can be no western muslim

[6:21]identity so we hope to make this debate an interactive one and

[6:25]we really want to hear from you all so tell us what

[6:28]you think of the motion by voting on it join us on

[6:35]slido.com with the code 26950 there should be a banner at the

[6:37]bottom of your screen and vote on the poll here we also

[6:42]have a q a section where we encourage you to post your

[6:45]questions and comments to the speakers throughout the debate uh keep them

[6:49]coming keep them coming remember you can upload certain questions and comments

[6:53]uh so please get on to slido and start voting and commenting

[6:58]now before we begin the debate i'd like to invite sajad azhar

[7:03]one of our mothers of students to commence the event with a

[7:07]recitation from the holy quran i also believe bismillah say i seek

[7:39]refuge in the lord of daybreak from the evil of that which

[7:48]he created and from the evil of darkness when it settles and

[7:54]from the evil of the blowers in knots and the evil of

[8:02]enviou when he envy and rise thank you so so much for

[8:14]the sweet recitation uh please can i remind you all to vote

[8:18]for poll number one on the motion again it's on slido.com if

[8:22]you haven't done so already uh we will be closing the polls

[8:26]soon remember the code is 26950 you can also post your questions

[8:32]and comments there during the debates so please ensure you do that

[8:37]so today's debate will be moderated by sister sanjida jaffar born and

[8:41]bred in western like many of the other mummies sanji dabai is

[8:46]a total superwoman she is a pharmacist by profession although is anyone

[8:50]surprised by that career choice and a devoted mother she ventured into

[8:55]public speaking mother's a teacher so she's not the mother she's a

[8:59]mother teacher she ventured into public speaking uh at age 13 with

[9:05]the rotary club youth speakers events and it is no surprise that

[9:10]sanji dabai wanted a way to be heard over the cacophony of

[9:12]the three very noisy younger brothers that she has and before you

[9:16]say anything that didn't come from me came from her so she

[9:20]feels public speaking is the most valuable and transferable life skill she

[9:24]has developed and she's passionate about mentoring others in the area and

[9:28]giving them a voice the proposing team will commence their arguments with

[9:33]brother montezer jaffar montezer graduated with a master's degree in chemical engineering

[9:40]in 2016 and works in the civil service specializing in green energy

[9:44]and climate change his interests include journalism comedy and food we have

[9:50]been informed that month there is always fighting no shine on tea

[9:53]for the kitchen too bad this is a virtual event otherwise we

[9:58]may have had a segment for the master chef montezer coming in

[10:04]second uh is uncle pedro hardy salimi father to two lovely children

[10:09]he has been teaching at the mother cell for the past four

[10:13]years he's an electronic engineer by profession so i have no doubt

[10:18]that uncle pedrock will be engineering his argument down to the t

[10:20]oh and by the way his name has an interesting story that

[10:24]perhaps you'd all like to find out about brother abbas huda accountant

[10:29]during the weekdays teacher during the weekend on top of all of

[10:36]that abbaspa is a creative entrepreneur i suspect he is an appreciator

[10:39]of puns as well if his venture who dates is something to

[10:42]go by when asked what motivated him to sign up for the

[10:46]debate obasa said and i quote i'm constantly debating in my mind

[10:51]about daily life so i thought why not try out the real

[10:56]thing i hope you enjoy trying out the real thing and finally

[10:59]the closing speaker of the proposing team is sister fatima bandali the

[11:03]super mom of three has a diverse professional background in business administration

[11:10]education mediation and the list goes on fatimati is a beacon of

[11:14]light and one of my mentors in social and community work not

[11:20]only can she put forward a good intellectual challenge fathamati can also

[11:23]whip up the most beautiful decorative creations you have ever seen over

[11:28]to the opposing side thank you kalaja okay before i start with

[11:34]the opposing side i had a sneaky feeling that kudeja would introduce

[11:40]everybody but herself so i had to do some quick thinking and

[11:45]i whipped up her linkedin profile um kadeja was not born in

[11:51]wessex but i have to say she has definitely been bred here

[11:55]i'm sorry i wasn't more prepared but um a lot of us

[11:59]have seen kadeja grow up from those awkward years and find herself

[12:05]and turn into this amazing human being that you see in front

[12:11]of you she attended oakland's sixth form college where she was the

[12:15]head girl she has a degree uh an msc in health psychology

[12:21]and she achieved the first class honours in psychology and yet she's

[12:27]always working on things whether it's flitting about in madaresa presenting research

[12:36]findings or organizing debates as today but we are very lucky to

[12:39]have her so let's move on very sneaky i had to think

[12:46]ahead i told him thank you so much that's too much credit

[12:49]but thank you so much it's a pleasure to work with someone

[12:54]like satya dabai who herself has mentored me through this process right

[13:00]okay so let's move on to the opposing side sabi ha chandu

[13:06]will be presenting the opening statement she is one of wessex jamaat's

[13:13]finest creations mother of two awesome girls so in a house of

[13:19]predominantly female members developing debating and speaking skills is definitely necessary to

[13:24]get a word in edgeways so i guess it works whether you

[13:30]have uh younger brothers or or two daughters i can relate in

[13:35]both circumstances sabiha is an all-rounder and here's a wild guess if

[13:40]she wasn't a qualified pharmacist she'd be a professional event organizer planner

[13:46]and decorator so welcome saliha habai brother fazlab nanji will follow sabine

[13:53]as speaker too fazley abbas has also delved into volunteering at the

[13:57]almaty center and madressa and is currently serving his term as head

[14:02]of the al-mahdi website managers so watch this space he's currently studying

[14:08]his msc in clinical exercise science at the university of portsmouth puzzler

[14:13]mass has previously headed the local affordability society and has overseen multiple

[14:20]fundraising effect events so great to have you on board now some

[14:25]of us may get a little jumpy around animals um can you

[14:29]relate when there's a dog walking down the street and you run

[14:34]to the other side of the road but our third speaker is

[14:37]definitely one with nature and a true embracer of allah's creations sister

[14:43]leila dory is a recent graduate looking to improve her public speaking

[14:47]skills with debating with her gentle aura and her loving approach on

[14:54]most days you'll find layla looking for snakes and butterflies in wild

[14:57]spaces and ask leila about her undergrad dissertation it is nothing short

[15:05]of fascinating thank you leila now another hudder another accountant the final

[15:12]speaker for the opposing team brother radar loves coaching entrepreneurs to build

[15:19]successful companies you'll find brother ruther regularly putting out videos on social

[15:25]media platforms way before it was the in thing pre-covered outside of

[15:32]work he's kept very busy as a father of four young children

[15:36]and enjoys working out and keeping fit and it definitely pays to

[15:42]have a wife who is a personal trainer all right so that

[15:48]is our opposing team so thank you very much for that to

[15:52]the point uh we are thankful so so thankful to the judges

[15:56]for their encouragement and support from the onset for taking the time

[15:59]out of their busy schedules and for the father and zeal with

[16:01]which they have approached this challenge we have uncle shibirwalji shamimanti manji

[16:09]we'll give you more introductions about them in the coming program so

[16:20]um sister kadeja can we have a look at the results for

[16:25]poll one please results are in let's see okay so uh that

[16:37]is a very skewed poll so can there be a western muslim

[16:46]identity and 92 percent voted yes that there can be a western

[16:57]muslim identity oh 93 with seven percent saying no so that's kind

[17:03]of flipped a little bit so that means that 93 percent are

[17:08]actually voting against the motion so next up is the debate with

[17:15]a chance for the speakers to give their arguments and for the

[17:19]proposing team to level the playing ground a bit so the proposing

[17:23]team consisting of brother muntazir jaffar brother pejak salimi brother abbas huda

[17:29]and sister fatima bandali are arguing in favor of the motion this

[17:34]house believes there can be no western muslim identity the opposing team

[17:42]consisting of sister sabiha chandu brother sister leila dory and brother ritha

[17:51]huda are arguing against the motion now we would like to stress

[17:55]that the arguments being presented are purely for the sake of the

[18:01]debate they do not necessarily represent the views of those people who

[18:04]are bringing them up i'm just going to talk you through the

[18:08]debate process so the first speakers beginning with the proposing team will

[18:14]give their out their opening statements and outline their arguments the second

[18:21]speakers on each team will then come forward expand on their team's

[18:27]arguments and can also use the opportunity to refute the other team's

[18:33]arguments and then the third speakers come and they will have their

[18:39]turn to speak and refute each speaker is given five minutes sister

[18:42]khadeja is our timekeeper she will announce when four minutes has elapsed

[18:47]and then an alarm will ring at five minutes the teams will

[18:53]be penalized for going over there five minutes or not using their

[18:59]time adequately and this will also be taken into consideration by the

[19:05]judges after the first three speakers from each team have spoken there

[19:09]will be a free-for-all round so this is where um audience participation

[19:15]comes in sister khadeja will fire questions at each team with some

[19:20]questions selected from the audience so please do visit slido.com use the

[19:28]code 26950 which has been appearing on the screen and you can

[19:33]post questions for participants and you can also put comments on there

[19:36]that we will inshallah come to later after the free for all

[19:42]round speaker four from each team will again be given five minutes

[19:46]to make the closing arguments for their teams once the debate ends

[19:53]the judges will discuss their findings accordingly um based on the judging

[19:58]criteria which centers on style content and strategy and we have some

[20:02]interesting fillers while we await the judge's verdict and we are looking

[20:07]forward to some more interactive audience participation then now once again before

[20:15]we begin um i'd like to stress the arguments being presented are

[20:18]for the sake of the debate they do not necessarily represent the

[20:23]views of those raising them right so this house believes there can

[20:35]be no western muslim identity i would like to invite brother muntezir

[20:38]jaffer to make the opening statement for the proposing team madison your

[20:48]time starts now bismillah it has often been remarked at how little

[20:55]western thinking has developed since the greeks aristotle considered the father of

[20:59]western philosophy was one of the first to describe the principle of

[21:02]individuality that all men have the capacity to influence their own fate

[21:07]and the fate of the world across the aegean sea the then

[21:11]emperor of rome trojan would march his armies to india and come

[21:14]across a monk meditating on a rock he would converse with this

[21:19]monk for some time and tell him that we the conquerors from

[21:21]rome believe in the number one one life of opportunity greatness and

[21:25]experience the values of individualism and experience have continued to be key

[21:31]tenants of western of the western experience and identity even to this

[21:35]day whether it is in romantic love consumerism or drinking culture one

[21:41]does not have to look too far to find these values embodied

[21:44]in western culture it would be wrong to say however the western

[21:47]culture is not malleable during the golden era of western empire thinkers

[21:52]would develop ideologies declaring the supremacy of white europeans in the descent

[21:57]in the descent of man darwin wrote that the civilized races will

[22:00]almost certainly exterminate and replace the savage races one example of many

[22:06]used to dehumanize black africans sold into slavery and erode the culture

[22:10]of natives swallowed by empires supremacy and the hegemony of western thinking

[22:14]remains a key element of western identity neoliberal capitalism where money rather

[22:19]than need dictates the flow of resources was expanded globally by thatcher

[22:23]and reagan and has cemented the economic supremacy of post-imperial nations over

[22:28]the global south make america great again reminds over half of white

[22:33]america of a time when they held hegemony over geopolitics security and

[22:36]culture and even secularism which supports other western progressive values such as

[22:41]equal rights and the freedom of expression have only been given their

[22:45]high status because they differentiate the west from primitive cultures despite how

[22:49]accurate this is from my own experience at school telling you telling

[22:53]someone you believe in god is met with eye rolls and judgment

[22:56]they remind you of how close-minded your beliefs are ironically should i

[23:01]say the foundations therefore of western identity are individualism experience and supremacy

[23:07]when we consider the beliefs and values that shape muslim identity we

[23:11]see a very different picture the first word that every muslim hears

[23:15]after they are born is ash this is the most fundamental principle

[23:19]of islam and its recitation at abba and ultimately our death is

[23:25]a reminder of how no part of a muslim's life can be

[23:26]separated from the next words we hear are ash muhammad rasool allah

[23:32]acceptance of the prophet and of the prophet muhammad and his message

[23:35]the quran forms the basis of all islamic belief without these one

[23:40]cannot say that their islam is their religion and what is interesting

[23:44]about these foundational principles and central to muslim identity is that they

[23:48]are universal and unchanging muslims from any part of the world will

[23:51]share these beliefs entirely the quran has remained unchanged since it was

[23:56]brought by prophet muhammed think of bilal a black slave freed by

[23:59]the prophet to become the first man to recite islam he transcended

[24:03]the status of servitude and became and came willingly to the oneness

[24:07]of god and the universality of these beliefs is central to every

[24:12]muslim's experience and identity since the time of the prophet it is

[24:15]as if the oneness of the ummah is a reflection of the

[24:18]oneness of god itself therefore we can say that the foundations of

[24:23]muslim identity are at universal principles belief in tahid muhammad and the

[24:28]quran so now that we have our definitions for both western western

[24:32]identity and muslim identity we can shape our understanding of western muslim

[24:38]identity it is sad to say that these things are often considered

[24:42]immiscible in that they do not work gel well together when a

[24:44]muslim is asked whether they are western what they are really being

[24:49]asked is if they are loyal to the supremacy of western identity

[24:52]whether they have backed with beliefs or are closed-minded and judgmental it

[24:57]is interesting that a western culture of religious plurality does not find

[25:01]the best of our beliefs and adopt them taking our best rather

[25:04]than our worst and in order for a muslim to qualify as

[25:08]western they have to surrender parts of their beliefs that are seen

[25:11]as archaic if we look at prominent western muslims like sergey javid

[25:14]one of the conservative party he is a self-described cultural muslim regardless

[25:19]of the fact that we don't know what this means he drinks

[25:23]alcohol and does not practice islam but we call him a western

[25:26]muslim and when we look at france where they have banned hijab

[25:28]because it is not western despite the fact that the habit has

[25:32]been in place since the year 500 we continue to see the

[25:36]supremacy of western identity overtake the freedom of religions for muslims because

[25:40]it is not the western identity and muslim identity are incompatible it

[25:44]is that western identity will always push aside anything that does not

[25:49]accept its supremacy and we accept it we accept the supremacy of

[25:53]god and that is why this house should believe there is no

[25:55]such thing as a western muslim wow thank you there is so

[26:03]much to take in there so just to try and summarize um

[26:10]the um identity uh of the west is focused on individuality experience

[26:17]and secularism whereas um for islam it's you know your fundamental beliefs

[26:23]the shahada nabuwa the quranic belief system which are all universal and

[26:31]unchanging and the oneness of the ummah correlates to the oneness of

[26:39]whereas to take on board a western identity you are you are

[26:43]forced to compromise and push aside your islamic values so thank you

[26:49]so much for that um i would like to invite sister sabiha

[26:54]to please come forward and make the opening statements opposing the motion

[27:02]your time starts now my dear brothers and sisters and my esteemed

[27:09]audience i thank my honorable opponents for their opening presentation now as

[27:14]this protocol we are supposed to oppose the motion that there can

[27:18]be no western muslim identity but i'm here to tell you that

[27:22]we cannot oppose this motion that's right we cannot for the simple

[27:26]reason that the premise of this motion the very foundation of the

[27:33]motion is fundamentally flawed it is folly to argue against something that

[27:36]doesn't make sense let me explain the stance by giving you some

[27:39]definitions of the words western and muslim the oxford dictionary defines the

[27:44]word western as one an adjective as in situated in the west

[27:49]or facing west and to living in or originating from the west

[27:53]in particular europe and the us so it is a situation a

[27:58]location a geographical point now to define muslim which i don't have

[28:03]to tell my esteemed audience it comes from the one who professes

[28:06]islam one who submits from the root aslama he submitted or resigned

[28:12]to the will of allah now let's put the two together a

[28:16]western muslim is one who submits to the will of allah and

[28:20]happens to live in a western area now i am positive that

[28:24]i could if i could see the faces of our esteemed audience

[28:28]today the faces looking back at me would be those of western

[28:31]muslims devout muslims living in submission to allah subhanahu wa'ta'ala that live

[28:37]mostly in this country of ours the very fact that we are

[28:42]able to have events like this by a community such as this

[28:44]opposes this motion entirely population statistics speak for themselves the pew research

[28:51]center estimates that an estimated 44 muslims were living in europe in

[28:57]2010 the statista research department states that the number of muslims in

[29:00]the usa was 3.45 million in 2017.

[29:04]that's nearly 48 million people in europe and the us who identify

[29:09]as muslims living in a western country ergo western muslims if we

[29:16]extrapolate the premise of this motion our worthy opponents will say that

[29:19]to be truly be muslims we have to be limited to a

[29:22]specific geographical area i am intrigued as as mantissa said it's it's

[29:29]the uh it's universal the tenets of islam are universal i'm very

[29:33]intrigued as i'm sure you all are where this magical location is

[29:36]but even so does not allah say in holy quran surah 49

[29:42]verse 13 we have made you into nations and tribes so that

[29:45]you may know one another this clearly states that allah subhanahu wa'ta'ala

[29:49]in his infinite wisdom has designed us and the system of this

[29:54]world so that we are not in a fixed location we are

[30:00]everywhere the ayah continues the most honoured among you in the sight

[30:04]of allah is the one who is most righteous god conscious the

[30:07]ones with taqwa do we believe that allah is in a fixed

[30:10]location this album that we recite of course not allah says in

[30:18]surah 57 ayah for wahu aina and he is with you wherever

[30:22]you are why are we excluding him from being in the west

[30:27]now our worthy opponents have already started to try to convince you

[30:32]that being a western muslim means that you have to shed some

[30:33]of your islamic values and assimilate with the whole culture and ethos

[30:37]of the country that you are living in they will also bring

[30:41]arguments stating that there are places in the western world where it

[30:43]is harder to practice your face practice your faith as already they

[30:48]have done our team will debunk these arguments thoroughly and leave you

[30:52]in no doubt that a western muslim identity is not only a

[30:55]possibility but an inevitability i will give you this a western identity

[30:59]does not mean assimilation it means integration integration with the values that

[31:06]are arguably more islamic than those seen in the muslim world using

[31:10]the tools that the country we are in provide us with enhance

[31:13]our faith again the very fact that we're able to have events

[31:17]like this by a community such as this when an audience such

[31:20]as yourselves completely opposes this motion our honorable honorable opponents will give

[31:24]examples such as france portugal belgium as places where practicing islam is

[31:29]more difficult but i ask you this being a muslim is living

[31:34]in submission to allah the scale with which we are to be

[31:38]measured is that of taqwa so who is better he for whom

[31:41]practicing faith faith may be easier or he for whom practicing some

[31:45]elements of his faith includes a struggle which will be in will

[31:48]increase in his taqwa therefore epitomizing what it is to be a

[31:52]muslim living in submission to allah subhanahu wa's isla in a western

[31:59]country a western muslim thank you thank you so much to me

[32:10]huh wow a lot to take in there as well uh i

[32:11]can't wait to see you know if we've got the likes of

[32:15]monsieur and sabiha what the other speakers are like so just to

[32:19]um try and summarize what uh sister saliha has said it rests

[32:24]mainly on integration not so taking those aspects of our faith that

[32:32]you know that make us who we are the best parts and

[32:36]that you know the premise of this motion is fundamentally flawed there

[32:42]are 48 million western muslims in the world and looking at the

[32:47]wisdom of allah when he said we have made you into nations

[32:53]and tribes so you may know each other and that is the

[32:56]infinite wisdom of allah who is not confined just to the east

[33:01]or to the western countries and he has given us our struggles

[33:04]as a means of attaining taqwa so thank you um sister sabiha

[33:10]um i would like to now invite brother perisha salimi a speaker

[33:18]too from the proposing team to expand and give us your team's

[33:23]thoughts for the pressure please your time starts now yes thank you

[33:30]very much for this opportunity salaam alaikum dear brothers and sisters and

[33:35]i have to start by emphasizing on the uh the modern order

[33:40]today perception of western you're not talking about a geographical point that

[33:49]you campaign it's a state of mind it's a mindset that is

[33:53]um structured and forced upon people through media and and this structure

[34:00]is made in these institutes you have philosophers who worked on on

[34:05]this like and kent um francis bacon machiavelli and so on the

[34:11]idea and the idea of the sternalization is like i said it's

[34:16]about how you perceive yourself how it emphasizes it forces you to

[34:20]focus on set interest only or unless there is a greater good

[34:27]which in this in in a western system is the system i'll

[34:30]give you an example you're forced to stop at traffic red lights

[34:34]and if you um if you cross there is penalty so that

[34:41]that's an element of the system that ensures that um by doing

[34:49]so the system can place some order in place but in your

[34:52]very same system if you cross many ethical or moral red lines

[34:56]there is no penalty there isn't even a perception of moral ethical

[35:03]red lines we are constantly told that this is a free society

[35:06]that people are entitled to their opinion you can pray okay and

[35:13]you can't fuss but you can have those in your minds okay

[35:16]without even realizing it on the other hand let's have a look

[35:22]at what islam is proposing here in no way islam is implementing

[35:27]any form of chaos islam does not call muslim and command muslims

[35:33]to cause chaos islam doesn't say oh yeah go ahead cross the

[35:37]red and traffic red dice no but what happens as much as

[35:44]he cares about social order he cares about um monitoring and observing

[35:51]the right to allah and the the right to others okay it

[35:55]doesn't um as tom says that you know you how you have

[36:00]the freedom but you have to unmonitor your obligation you you should

[36:05]not be happy about where you are you have to improve yourself

[36:08]okay that's exactly opposite is what um western is the western mindset

[36:14]um tells us and there are numerous uh examples um so however

[36:24]um as the time is limited i need to run to the

[36:29]conclusion or to the bottom line the bottom line is as human

[36:36]beings we have free will we are created free so yes practically

[36:40]you can draw a red line based on the western values around

[36:45]your religious beliefs or you can enforce the islamic restrictions around the

[36:52]habits and mindset that the the western of the system of thinking

[37:01]imposes now the fundamental question is which path is worth it to

[37:07]take uh i wa ta'ala has actually asked this question from his

[37:13]um from us as creators okay where uh in surah yusuf either

[37:19]are you thirty nineties asking us i am asking the the two

[37:28]inmates okay he says i'm just going to go through the transition

[37:31]is it good to have variety of monsters or is it good

[37:36]to have one unlock who is unique and omnivore omnipotence okay that

[37:42]variety of a loss can be uh the greed um the unlimited

[37:49]believing unlimited freedom or you get your guidance from one unique allah

[37:54]in all aspects um inshallah i i hope that i managed to

[37:59]convey my statement and like i said we are not talking about

[38:03]geographical sports we are talking about school of mind and mindset thank

[38:13]you very much namaste thank you brother hardy so looking at it

[38:21]from a state of mind rather than a location where in the

[38:26]west your mindset is forced upon you and it is one of

[38:29]self-interest and self-propagation i love the example of the traffic light because

[38:36]i can attest to being in uh eastern countries where when there

[38:42]is a red traffic light the cars tend to accelerate towards it

[38:45]rather than stop so with that point i am totally with you

[38:52]um but you know talking about islam yes you have your free

[38:55]will but it's not just about self-interest you you have the rights

[39:01]of allah and the rights of others and you have your moral

[39:06]obligations so the question is which bit is ring fenced in red

[39:13]who is is your god is it the god of self-interest or

[39:19]is it the one unique creator so thank you for those arguments

[39:24]brother hardy right brother fuzz leia boss from the um opposing team

[39:31]we would love to hear your team's reasoning and fossil boss your

[39:38]time starts now normally helps when you're not on mute sorry about

[39:46]that um assalamu alaikum everybody um firstly i'd like to thank our

[39:51]opponents for presenting a very well structured and well um good argument

[39:55]um i just like to pinpoint a few things um my esteemed

[40:03]opponent brother muntazu talked about how when you're being western you have

[40:06]to be supremacy like western supremacy um white people are greater than

[40:13]the others slavery but i just like to ask does that not

[40:16]exist in the arab world today is not the saudi royal family

[40:20]consider themselves to be supreme what is going on in palestine what's

[40:25]going on there um i'd also just like to give you guys

[40:29]an example when the prophet came to arabia he had a different

[40:38]society and he changed it they did not change it completely he

[40:41]had some things about arabian society that he liked for example in

[40:46]arabian culture they had certain months of the year where they did

[40:50]not fight and he kept that he said you know this is

[40:53]this is in line with islamic values so we will keep this

[40:56]but there were other things about arabian culture that the prophet did

[40:59]not like and were not in line with islamic values such as

[41:03]bearing of girls so he said we'll keep what we what is

[41:08]in line with islamic values it will get rid of what's not

[41:10]and therefore i do not see why we as muslims in the

[41:15]west cannot do that why can we not look at what the

[41:18]western values are and keep what's islamic and release what is not

[41:22]for example there are a lot of western values such as welfare

[41:28]environmentally friendly um you know things like that um while you know

[41:34]drinking culture and things like that we can not do that and

[41:38]i just like to ask um does drinking culture not exist in

[41:42]the east or in muslim countries was yazid and why are not

[41:47]muslim leaders and further to that i just like to say um

[41:52]there is a verse in the quran that says all you who

[41:59]believe my world is wide so worship me and me alone and

[42:03]in this case allah is talking about his earth and it is

[42:08]his earth is white and in his hymn we have to worship

[42:11]and we can do it anyway the other thing is another verse

[42:16]surah nahal verse 125 it says invites to the way of your

[42:19]lord with wisdom and kind advice another hadith by our sixth imam

[42:26]jafar sadiq he says be examples for us without using your tongues

[42:29]therefore it says that it is our duty as muslims in a

[42:35]non-muslim country to spread islamic values towards them it is not that

[42:40]by being in the west we accept their values no we can

[42:43]be here and still not accept their values and actually try to

[42:47]have the westerners try to accept our values we can try and

[42:53]teach them some stuff and islam encourages this in fact it is

[42:56]a question that i would like to pose to my opponents which

[43:00]if they can answer would be absolutely great is if islamic values

[43:06]have nothing to do with western values then why and i repeat

[43:12]why is islam the fastest growing religion in the west now i'd

[43:16]also just like to point on some other things muslims in the

[43:21]who live in the east um shia and sunni there tends to

[43:26]be a lot of conflict between them and there's a lot of

[43:30]shia surrey fighting take for example what's happened in syria but in

[43:36]the west where we are um shia cities tend to live in

[43:39]harmony with one another do they not and which one is more

[43:45]in line with islamic values the the fighting with each other or

[43:52]the um living together in harmony and with that i'd like to

[43:59]45 missed seconds to spare anything else you'd like to add for

[44:07]the fuzz lava happy perfect well thank you very much so a

[44:14]very pertinent question that if there can be no western muslim identity

[44:17]then why is islam the fastest growing religion in the west looking

[44:27]at the western white supremacist ideology uh is there no supremacy in

[44:32]countries like saudi and palestine and even you know regarding the question

[44:38]of uh sunni and shia brothers is there any supremacy involved in

[44:46]that however looking at those of us living in the west living

[44:48]uh as sunnis and shias in what can be regarded as a

[44:55]more harmonious state isn't that the kind of um islamic values that

[45:01]we want to propagate as encouraged by rasulullah as referred to in

[45:08]the holy quran as um spoken about by our ayama so thank

[45:12]you so much brother fazbear for that um and now the third

[45:19]and final speakers so brother abbas huda i'd like to invite you

[45:26]up to give us a little bit more insight into your team's

[45:29]position um your time starts now bismillah firstly i would like to

[45:42]respond to statements from the esteemed opposition it was stated earlier on

[45:49]by sister sabiha that western being a western muslim is about integrating

[45:53]into the west firstly it was stated that western is not just

[45:58]a geographical location it is about a mindset but in terms of

[46:01]integration integration it it it forces us to restrict um how we

[46:10]are as muslims it it it is another um a definition of

[46:14]integration is about bringing one thing into another and amalgamating it without

[46:19]it standing out it's for example like bringing kids of uh special

[46:23]needs into a general school it's just not compatible it's not gonna

[46:26]work there's there's there's catering that needs to be that needs to

[46:32]take place and also i would like to mention uh what um

[46:34]brother firstly about stated about um what happens in in the east

[46:38]and in for example palestine now the only reason palestine no longer

[46:42]exists on the map at least is because of western influence and

[46:46]also same with saudi arabia they have a very western mindset in

[46:51]terms of supremacy but i would like to continue in terms of

[46:55]my points following on from my team member and the freedoms and

[46:59]habits that have been cultivated by living by western standards has given

[47:03]us the opportunity to limit how we are live as muslims are

[47:07]we living as muslims by name or we muslims inside out so

[47:10]living in western society means there are western expectations one such expectation

[47:14]is being content with the state of public toilets why is it

[47:18]that when we have to choose when we have chosen to live

[47:21]in western society that we where we can live how we choose

[47:24]to that we cannot even expect to get basic necessities such as

[47:27]clean water in in in the toilets yes i agree that the

[47:30]state of public toilets all around the world is questionable but in

[47:33]the western world where we are generally more widely educated we should

[47:38]know better it is a difficulty that we have to bear with

[47:41]and imagine my dear listeners we have to travel around the country

[47:44]having to pre-plan our toilet breaks and even carry an extra bottle

[47:47]the foundation of islam is based on cleanliness an example is where

[47:52]allah states that allah loves those who purify themselves hijab is also

[47:57]another important aspect of being a muslim in western societies it's acceptable

[48:00]for muslim women to leave their hijabs behind how can something so

[48:05]beautiful from the islam's perspective which is also empowering to women can

[48:10]be seen as backward when western society seems to promote women by

[48:13]wearing minimal clothing and passing on adverts all over the media is

[48:17]that not objectifying it seems backwards to me think about it what

[48:20]did those in the primitive era wear therefore how can the muslim

[48:25]identity fit in with the western identity it just doesn't make sense

[48:29]another point i would also like to state is that muslim islam

[48:31]is not always tangible to those who do not understand it by

[48:34]this i mean western society doesn't have any religious basis or any

[48:38]greater good overriding purpose the western society is all about due diligence

[48:41]limited to not only doing anything wrong and also not breaking the

[48:45]law in contrast islam has a foundation which is based on actively

[48:51]doing good deeds which was also mentioned in the quran except those

[48:54]who repent and believe and do good deeds allah will change their

[48:57]evil deeds into good deeds and allah is most forgiving merciful western

[49:01]society is all about living in the now the experience to fame

[49:05]fortune and power focusing on improving one's physical self only neglecting the

[49:09]inner self islam doesn't push this ideology islam stands for peace love

[49:13]and is filled with spirituality islam allows for freedoms but in line

[49:19]with the teachings of the religion we are not encouraged to try

[49:23]anything and everything as we have guides such as the quran and

[49:25]the prophet and his family which have stated that trying everything is

[49:28]not spiritually nor physically good for us a survey that was completed

[49:33]by pew research in 2011 asking non-muslims in u.s russia and western

[49:36]europe what traits they would associate with muslims and it is shocking

[49:41]that the top answer was 68 stated fanatical and 50 stated violent

[49:46]whereas tolerant came in at 30 and respectful to women was 22

[49:50]it's it's shocking as muslims we pride ourselves on being spiritual people

[49:55]we aim to do good deeds such as charity and helping those

[49:57]less fortunate why all in order to achieve peace to plan for

[50:00]a good hereafter because we believe in the life after this life

[50:05]which will be forever we have directed to do good as much

[50:09]as possible which western society may not negate but it is unfortunate

[50:11]that western society rewards showing off an example being giving charity and

[50:16]actively promoting it this is contradictory to islam where the prophet has

[50:19]said a person should practice charity so secretly that his left hand

[50:23]should not know what his right hand is given western society is

[50:27]uncapable of understanding such beliefs as it is based on the scene

[50:29]what is physical or tangible no depth no clarity no peace peace

[50:35]comes from the spiritual from prayer from faith from belief therefore from

[50:38]religion therefore the calling ourselves western muslims is a threat to ourselves

[50:41]to our religion to our faith it means we are calling ourselves

[50:45]faithless muslims therefore i would state that the nation is not flawed

[50:48]and i concur that there cannot be a western muslim identity thank

[50:55]you brother abbas as with the other speakers a lot to take

[51:01]in there so are western muslims faithless muslims um the islamic viewpoint

[51:09]focuses on achieving a good end in the hereafter and that is

[51:11]why we focus on that inner peace on the good deeds that

[51:16]we do whereas the western society is focused on living in the

[51:23]now especially the physical aspects and there's no depth no clarity and

[51:27]that is why you don't achieve inner peace and you know regarding

[51:34]integration into society we are essentially restricting how we live as muslims

[51:42]looking at um you know certain eastern countries they still have in

[51:48]some ways a western supremacist mindset regarding integration and assimilation i love

[51:55]your example about traveling around the country planning for toilet breaks so

[51:59]um if we had truly integrated then we would have facilities in

[52:06]those bathrooms for washing ourselves but the fact that we have to

[52:10]carry around bottles of water mean you know does that mean that

[52:13]we have assimilated rather than integrated so i think a point all

[52:18]of us can relate to brother abbas thank you for that and

[52:22]finally i would like to invite sister leila dory please provide us

[52:28]with your final arguments representing your team's position sister laila please leila

[52:34]your time starts now okay thank you assalamualaikum everyone um thank you

[52:41]to to all the speakers um who have spoken so far and

[52:44]i like to go through my points so i first i'd like

[52:49]to open by stating that the that the prophet has said um

[52:54]god has made the entire face of the earth as a mosque

[52:57]and the soil is pure um that means that um you that

[53:03]anyone is allowed to practice islam anywhere in the in the world

[53:08]uh east or west um meaning that um that what such that

[53:15]western muslims can exist um the opposition has said that the west

[53:22]um hasn't catered to muslims but i like to refute that by

[53:27]saying that um that there are groups in the government such as

[53:32]the anti-muslim hatred working group who are working to tackle um crimes

[53:38]against muslims and to improve their lives in uh in in um

[53:46]in britain um also if if um the west hasn't catered to

[53:51]the to is to islam why is it that there are so

[53:54]many mosques in britain um and and if you say that uh

[54:01]that the west is supremacist why is it that um that muslims

[54:08]have been growing in the in the uh why is it that

[54:12]that muslims have been growing in the west since the eighth century

[54:17]like um my my team member said um at present um six

[54:22]point three percent of the uk population is practicing islam and pw

[54:29]research estimates that it could grow to around 10 percent by the

[54:34]year 2050 and 85 percent of these muslims in the uk identified

[54:41]themselves um as as british and feel they belong to british society

[54:48]to british society um now um these muslims have both been born

[54:53]here and have migrated here from other countries um migration or hijra

[54:58]is one of the earliest actions in islamic history and the prophet

[55:05]was a supporter and instigator of hijra and was a firm believer

[55:09]that you should travel the world for knowledge uh safety and spreading

[55:19]islam um the chapter 4 verse 100 of the quran states that

[55:22]whosoever migrates in the way of god shall find many places of

[55:28]refuge and vastness so allah is in courage are encouraging um travelling

[55:33]to different con to different countries and um for both um religion

[55:41]and and knowledge and he also said that the earth is spacious

[55:47]enough um to to flee and to to find safe places to

[55:52]practice islam when when um the the place that you are in

[55:57]and doesn't uh doesn't cater or it doesn't seem to accept islam

[56:05]it also suggests that um the the countries that the muslims are

[56:12]fleeing to should i should welcome them with open arms and and

[56:19]should and and should um support them to support these muslims to

[56:26]live there as west as westerners another thing that's contributing to to

[56:32]the growth of islam in uh in the west is uh people

[56:38]converting to islam um in the uk uh 5 000 people per

[56:44]year convert to islam and in the us it's four minutes okay

[56:48]thank you and this is 2 500 25 000 sorry um converts

[56:57]such as uh muhammad mama duke pixel have uh has provided a

[57:05]translation for the quran that's become renowned and of abdul kalim also

[57:12]founded the first purpose-built mosque in the year 1889 um so i'd

[57:19]like to summarize by saying there are such things as western muslims

[57:22]because muslims have grown have grown throughout the west despite supremacy and

[57:30]um and the west's not catering to them properly and um there

[57:38]are quranic hadiths and um and uh verses that say um that

[57:45]you can practice this psalm anywhere i hope i've made my points

[57:47]understood thank you thank you very much sister leila for drawing on

[57:54]the quran and hadith and actually looking at the views of the

[58:01]muslims living in the west in particular the pew research that you

[58:06]mentioned that 83 of muslims living in this country identify and feel

[58:11]that they belong to british society and that is a mixture of

[58:16]people who have been born here and those who have migrated and

[58:20]regarding regarding migration there may be some muslim groups um you know

[58:26]some muslim sects who can actually practice their faith um with less

[58:32]risk of harm than for example a country like saudi arabia we

[58:37]have people in our own community who have migrated for example from

[58:42]pakistan because of the risk to their lives practicing their faith so

[58:47]maybe it isn't as clear-cut as living in a muslim country um

[58:53]when you're thinking about where you can practice your faith freely that

[58:56]you know you've talked about government groups who actually consult on tackling

[59:04]hate crimes against muslim the fact that 5 000 people per year

[59:08]in this country and 25 000 people per year in the us

[59:16]actually convert to islam so those numbers are growing despite this um

[59:22]western supremacist ideology and that this earth allah has made spacious enough

[59:28]enough for us you know to be able to practice our religion

[59:33]and that includes in the west so thank you sister leila um

[59:38]so that's part one of the debate finished everybody at home i

[59:43]would love you to to please join us in a virtual recitation

[59:48]of a loud salawat for all of the participants thank you um

[60:15]now um so we are now going to commence the free for

[60:31]all round the open fire round which should be exciting inshallah we

[60:35]have been receiving some questions and comments on our slido uh thank

[60:39]you so much for bringing in those questions um right so we

[60:45]have a few questions from the audience and a couple from the

[60:49]judges we're going to have 15 minutes allocated to this and we'll

[60:53]try and have three questions to each team insha allah so um

[60:58]what i'm going to do is i'll commence with the judge's questions

[61:01]then i'll bring up the slido screen and then we can see

[61:04]what the audience have been saying so the first question from the

[61:11]audience and i believe this is opposed to the um sorry just

[61:21]give me a second this is uh given towards the proposing team

[61:27]um so if shocking poll results show views of muslims isn't it

[61:33]even more important that as muslims we demonstrate that we aren't these

[61:38]terrible things by living and engaging with those in the west proposing

[61:44]team what do you have to say for this so we can

[61:57]just repeat the question just so that we definitely have it of

[62:02]course the question is if shocking poll results show views of muslims

[62:04]isn't it even more important that as muslims we demonstrate that we

[62:09]aren't these terrible things by living and engaging with those in the

[62:12]west um okay so in what you've said you've said that there

[62:21]is a shocking viewpoint of people that have uh poor opinions of

[62:24]muslims right so i think the first thing there are two parts

[62:26]of this that you really have to break down the first is

[62:30]as to what um what the shocking viewpoints that people have are

[62:33]and the second is the response like the level to which muslims

[62:39]already go on to um actively make themselves ingratiated into society and

[62:43]still the fact that they have to face um discrimination so the

[62:46]first is the shocking images that they see which are actually produced

[62:50]by a really really twisted media culture um despite the fact that

[62:55]in the year 2001 after 9 11 george w bush stood up

[63:00]and said to people muslims are not responsible for this this is

[63:03]not the practice of islam in the destruction of the two towers

[63:08]this is not a valid representation of islam and we've begun to

[63:12]see an increasing level of anti-muslim hate crimes that have continued to

[63:17]this day and have actually been capitalized on by western political systems

[63:21]in fact you see the emergence of far-right groups now being the

[63:24]main source of terrorism despite the fact that and government programs like

[63:29]prevent simply target muslims as the core people of um of that

[63:34]terrorism and the so basically regardless of what muslims do already they

[63:38]are being painted by the brush by an unfair brah against them

[63:42]the second point is what muslims already do now we are in

[63:46]ramban right now and i'm not going to say that every muslim

[63:50]has the best representation in is always exemplifies with the religion perfectly

[63:53]but from visiting our neighbors and bringing them food to visiting the

[63:57]elderly to making a part in our communities and society i would

[64:02]argue that we already do so much and sure we can do

[64:05]more and there is always more that can be done to promote

[64:07]and protect those who are the most in need but if we

[64:11]fundamentally believe that there is not a fair attempt given to propagate

[64:16]a better viewpoint of muslims then how no matter what we do

[64:21]and no matter what these shocking images they see that will be

[64:24]the belief structure that they always have about muslims and so as

[64:27]much as we can do more and there is aspiration in that

[64:31]to produce a better idea of what islam is surely us continuing

[64:34]to be the muslims that we are and promoting a good quality

[64:37]of islam will do that fundamentally and whether anyone else wants to

[64:42]listen will be up to them thank you very much for that

[64:46]month is there um i think you answered that question in a

[64:50]holistic manner um we have another question that's come in from the

[64:53]judges and this is posed to both teams so it'd be nice

[64:57]to hear from both teams on this um basically the question is

[65:01]most of us for example we have a koja culture we do

[65:09]our azadari in urdu perhaps other languages but so our zadari style

[65:14]is asian our latmia sometimes that we recite arabic persian majalis style

[65:19]can be omani so what identity are you even talking about because

[65:24]you don't even have an identity of yourself you're borrowing from other

[65:30]people so what is the take um of both the teams on

[65:35]this okay so when we talk about culture here i'm very glad

[65:44]that somebody brought up the whole premise of culture because culture is

[65:47]extremely important to all of us we each have a culture that

[65:52]we identify with and for the purposes of this debate we're talking

[65:55]about a western muslim culture which we wholeheartedly believe is a culture

[66:00]that we have now created in this in this part of the

[66:05]world and for example there's azadari like you mentioned in this part

[66:07]of the world now and for example in this very community our

[66:10]culture of azadari has evolved and this is our culture of azadari

[66:15]now we may not do it exactly in the way that our

[66:17]forefathers did and we don't um do nothing as or or do

[66:22]minimal as as as the western ideal particularly but we have our

[66:27]own western muslim culture now and the growing population in this country

[66:32]especially in the western world is of our own western muslim identity

[66:37]and the culture that it brings with it is important because this

[66:39]is what is going to be passed down to our generations we

[66:42]can't just have the cultures of our forefathers everybody has their own

[66:47]cultures and adolescent himself states that keeping hold of your culture is

[66:52]important and this is our culture our culture is this western muslim

[66:58]culture we cannot say that we completely are um doing what our

[67:03]uh our forefathers did or in in um in the other parts

[67:08]of the world where we may have originated from because we do

[67:11]not and none of us do we are not doing it exactly

[67:12]in the same way we are doing it in the way that

[67:15]our current culture is dictating our integrated culture that has taken the

[67:23]best from this society and using it for the for for the

[67:25]purposes of islam for the benefit of being um true um submitters

[67:30]to allah and we are using this is our culture now and

[67:35]this is what we are bringing forward thank you so you're saying

[67:40]that the opposing team is taking the stance that this is our

[67:42]culture it may be mixed but this is our culture and this

[67:46]is what uh bringing in the islamic side of things is science

[67:48]telling us to stick to our culture so why give it up

[67:53]does anyone from the proposing team have anything to say to that

[67:57]or the question um yes so yeah basically when we talk about

[68:05]islamic identity the language is not part of it i'll take the

[68:12]the example that is uh on the question the azure daily decommority

[68:16]the the act is to remembering or commemorating the tragic event of

[68:21]karabakh that's that's the act that is common between all muslims whether

[68:28]it's in graduation whether it's in english whether it is farsi it's

[68:32]regardless everybody regardless of their language or even their cultural background love

[68:40]imam hussein alaihissalam everybody who reads a part of quran or part

[68:48]of natural balora can have nothing but respect for prophet muhammad sallallahu

[68:56]alaihi wasallam and imam ali al-issa again regardless of their cultural background

[69:00]i've seen people in atheist people nikita was talking to him about

[69:06]the imam ali al-assad and at the time of the day of

[69:10]his martyrdom i actually tell him that tonight i'm going to attend

[69:13]an event and when i said that what the event is he

[69:21]said why he had he had tears in his eyes he said

[69:25]why what did he do to me it it that's just a

[69:29]proof that when we talk about islamic identity or as a muslim

[69:32]identity it's about a message to our in um what you call

[69:38]it insa incent or fitra regardless of where you wherever you are

[69:42]what skin color you have what language you speak um thanks very

[69:48]much thank you very much for that uncle pejak um just wanted

[69:54]to touch on a couple of comments that have come in from

[69:58]the audience uh someone says um if there is not a western

[70:04]muslim identity then why is this entire debate in english so time

[70:07]to whip out your languages um another thing that's been printed out

[70:11]like culture and religion are surely not the same however muslims in

[70:16]the east adopt eastern cultures and western muslims adopt western cultures which

[70:22]is an interesting thing to say because it goes back to what

[70:26]we're saying that we have amalgamated different cultures we have some indian

[70:28]things some pakistani things and we just kind of blobbed it all

[70:34]into one um started you have a question just just an amalgamation

[70:42]of some from from previously so um i'm sorry to pause you

[70:49]there by has a refutation to make okay please go ahead yes

[70:56]um sorry but brother hadi was talking about um that every uh

[70:59]the the core um message was that we all love imam hussain

[71:02]and we uh recite these um and all the know-hows that we

[71:09]do and this is a and this is exactly my point in

[71:13]this society we have taken that love of imam hussain taken the

[71:17]love of allah and afflicted and we have incorporated it into this

[71:20]western um country into this western country using the tools for example

[71:27]our uh in our uh previous cultures we may have not understood

[71:30]completely what we were saying if we could stick to the culture

[71:32]we might a lot of our um children and a lot of

[71:35]us will not understand fully what we are saying what we are

[71:38]reciting but because we are now western muslims we are taking um

[71:41]these know how these letting us we are translating them we are

[71:44]doing them in english like i said this whole debate is in

[71:47]english we are taking it and making it our own and making

[71:50]our own culture and this and making our own identity our own

[71:54]western muslim identity and using it for the benefits that we can

[72:00]all access these beautiful poetry the quran the everything is now being

[72:05]recited in english which is exactly proving our point that this is

[72:10]our western muslim identity thank you sir have i um but you

[72:15]say that we're turning everything into english surely this is saying that

[72:18]uh you know what we had before was not compatible with what

[72:21]we have now so the proposing team any any comments to me

[72:27]can i answer that please go for it um okay so like

[72:33]i said it's not it's not a matter of language um that

[72:37]you know um sister savior emphasizes on that you have to take

[72:42]the element of language um out of this equation like i said

[72:48]because you can be anywhere in the world okay the point is

[72:52]that this love and respect of among us let's take an example

[73:00]with a with a western um pluralist perspective is is someone who

[73:08]is just a respected figure for a group called shias okay and

[73:14]that's just as valid as um some other characters for other um

[73:23]um sects of islam or even other um other religions okay now

[73:27]these what we have to ask ourselves is is that a way

[73:33]of understanding or looking at emo sound correct or is imam hussein

[73:38]ali his salam at his time um that we when we call

[73:44]him do we mean it doesn't mean that he is the reason

[73:53]of allah over everybody regardless of their the current asset whatsoever okay

[74:01]so again i have to emphasize it's not about the geographical position

[74:06]it's not about the language it's about how what do you choose

[74:12]when the value of western culture or western's western thinking system becomes

[74:19]in conflict with islam which way do you choose to go for

[74:24]okay it's nothing to do with the language of commonwealth thank you

[74:29]thank you for that there is something from abasa um yes i

[74:35]just wanted to reiterate what um brother just said and also refute

[74:42]what sabi sabiho saying in terms of us having had translated everything

[74:46]and everything that we'd we'd had from 1500 years ago in terms

[74:50]of the quran uh hadith and everything it allows us for us

[74:54]it allows for us to understand it however it it there's there's

[74:58]always a loss of meaning there's always a loss of understanding and

[75:01]it it's it's just lost and going forward it's just going to

[75:05]get further more and more lost in in the future if it

[75:08]carries on this way if we don't hold on to what the

[75:11]quran is the fact that it was released in arabic it was

[75:13]written in arabic and it's it was uh brought down to to

[75:18]those of arabia for them to be able to understand it but

[75:20]that doesn't mean that we can't translate it but there is when

[75:24]when you look at translations of the quran there's always differences there's

[75:29]always areas where there'll be different understandings in and for us to

[75:33]be able to get a message but we have to go back

[75:36]to understanding what the arabic is it doesn't mean that we can't

[75:40]we that we shouldn't we should only stick to what we know

[75:42]we need to learn and go out and do research to find

[75:44]out what the actual meanings and teachings are rather than just accepting

[75:49]how things have come out and how things are in the west

[75:55]uh thank you very much for that reputation um there has been

[76:00]a question that come in uh we have our own identities and

[76:05]then we've traveled into another country for many of us some of

[76:07]us have been born and brought up in the uk and western

[76:09]country others have not but for those who are living in the

[76:14]west is this is there an aspect of jihad al-aqbar going on

[76:18]there because someone who is perhaps living in a muslim country iran

[76:22]you know wearing a job easy more everywhere um you go pray

[76:27]nothing to hide nothing to plan you just go and you do

[76:30]um but in the case of a muslim uh in the west

[76:33]perhaps you have to speak to your manager this and that there's

[76:36]more that's being assessed uh is there anything that i read about

[76:41]perhaps or fatima anti would you like to come in here yes

[76:47]um go ahead father please okay so basically on the argument that

[76:53]why are we not um united or why are we not um

[76:56]one nation there's a an ayat in the quran that allah says

[77:00]um allah says that we had we wish to create you one

[77:19]um we would have done that but we chose you different so

[77:23]that you can you that you know each other but most importantly

[77:27]to grant you the rahmah that allah has for you and like

[77:33]you said i'm sorry khadeja the the test is there for for

[77:38]us to actually liable this is to test you fema with what

[77:45]we have given you and how you make use of that so

[77:47]allah subhanahu wa has put us with a test and the the

[77:52]the later the test the greater the reward so us being in

[77:55]the in the west we might be tested with different challenges yes

[77:59]but i'm getting this sense of confusion at the moment where we're

[78:03]refuting an argument with when we're saying that there is no such

[78:07]thing as western muslim identity and then on the other side we

[78:11]are arguing for the same value so i'm a little bit confused

[78:13]with the way the um my respected opposition party is going at

[78:19]the moment but i thank them for their views so far thank

[78:24]you thank you thank you for that uh would you like to

[78:27]come in thank you no i think i think fatima you should

[78:29]be on our team because um you're making points uh that we

[78:32]were going to make ourselves uh this is exactly it yes it

[78:37]can be difficult to practice our faith in certain western countries but

[78:42]like you say jihad is a fundamental tenet of our faith part

[78:47]of this internal struggle is part of our faith no matter where

[78:51]we are we're going to find these challenges yes in some countries

[78:54]it's difficult perhaps to wear the scarf or to say our prayers

[78:57]but the beauty about western values and western culture is that it

[79:03]allows us the freedom of expression the freedom of protest the freedom

[79:08]to be able to go and to stand up for our rights

[79:11]what is happening in france is no different to what was happening

[79:15]30 years ago in the uk for example our mother's generation some

[79:19]of them struggled to wear staff in school but what happened they

[79:22]were allowed under the the western basis of the rule of law

[79:27]and the rule of protest and the freedom of expression to come

[79:30]out and say that this is not right and through their their

[79:34]appeals and their protests slowly they were allowed to wear scarf and

[79:37]alhamdulillah today we see now that there is no issue with our

[79:41]daughters and our sisters going to school going to the workplace being

[79:46]able to identify openly as muslims and have no qualms and issues

[79:50]whatsoever so i would agree with my esteemed opponent in the opposition

[79:57]who has made our point for us and perhaps if if i

[80:02]were to say well if you know if we were to say

[80:06]although ken if there can be no western muslim identity then where

[80:08]can we go can you show me a truly a hundred percent

[80:12]utopia where we can freely practice our islamic values anywhere in the

[80:18]world look at so-called muslim countries like saudi arabia despotic autocratic regimes

[80:22]that you know we would have to hide our faith as shia

[80:26]in order to practice in those countries there is no one perfect

[80:32]utopia at least the west affords us the ability to practice our

[80:36]faith in relative freedom and have the ability to speak out when

[80:41]things are not in line with what we would like them to

[80:43]be sorry if i may catch you on that point you say

[80:45]that we have adapted to this western living and then our women

[80:48]and children and now uh sorry the females are now able to

[80:51]practice france what's going on there anything you've got for that yeah

[80:57]absolutely i mean like i said what what is happening in france

[81:00]is no different what was happening 30 years ago in the uk

[81:04]what did we do we protested we appealed we got together we

[81:09]got more influential nowadays you see in certainly in the uk we

[81:12]are able to influence policy we are able to influence places in

[81:18]government we have people in the highest echelons of the uk uh

[81:21]political system the mayor of london is a muslim we have baroness

[81:26]varsity we have peers in the lords and uh mps who are

[81:31]muslim we have the ability to influence laws that are made in

[81:36]this country and the same will happen in france through the struggle

[81:41]that takes place there are now over three and a half million

[81:44]muslims in there in france and they are getting slow representation and

[81:48]through the influence of others who who france will take um lessons

[81:54]from like the uk and the influence of what is happening and

[81:58]the impact of you know the positive uh influence that muslims have

[82:05]had in the uk economy where we see that muslims have risen

[82:07]to the highest of ranks that slowly through the struggle the internal

[82:11]struggle of muslims in france inshallah with with allah's help that will

[82:16]happen but it does not mean that we take ourselves out of

[82:18]the country and flee elsewhere we we take it as part of

[82:23]the struggle which is part of our thing thank you for that

[82:26]um interesting point you made about a muslim mayor montezer would you

[82:29]like to come on on this please so uh thanks for that

[82:33]brother brother um it was really interesting to hear what you have

[82:35]to say i do think that there are a few points that

[82:37]you bring up um it's the verses of baroness farsi now as

[82:41]we had previously kind of pointed out you do have to give

[82:44]up parts of your identity to become a part of the like

[82:48]western establishment that's and if you look at baroness varsity a really

[82:51]truly practicing muslim but she doesn't wear head scarf right so what

[82:54]representation does she give to people like us the whole point of

[82:57]what we're saying here is you have to subtract part of your

[82:59]identity to be accepted and even then her own party chooses to

[83:04]categorically um pump out islamophobic like content all the time in fact

[83:11]it's used to like pull in additional votes so your point about

[83:13]france and the fact that we made all these changes and went

[83:15]on and look what we did in britain there's two points on

[83:18]that first why is the idea of progress considered to be a

[83:20]forward arrow like entropy it just it like the idea that because

[83:25]it's western there's a secular like identity that exists in this place

[83:29]means that we will eventually attenuate to the position of like of

[83:33]acceptance is is not true like as in the arrow of progress

[83:38]does not move in a straight line in fact it bends and

[83:41]it comes back and forth and it is only with the pushing

[83:43]of muslims demanding the rights that are defaulted to us under this

[83:48]law that we are able to do what we have to we

[83:49]shouldn't have to scream and shout and fight but we do and

[83:52]again when we say to say that france will one day be

[83:56]better when it was better in the past is an odd position

[83:58]to say that it will return to progress and again even the

[84:02]fact that as we've mentioned before progress is a fundamentally western idea

[84:05]as if we don't have the ideas already set in stone as

[84:09]to what we think good and bad is but instead we believe

[84:12]in this idea that things will get better because of the supremacy

[84:16]of western identity because things will continue to be where like the

[84:18]money in the capital comes and the final point that i wanted

[84:22]to raise with this um sorry it's not just left my mind

[84:26]but um sorry france um oh god it's completely gone uh i'm

[84:36]sure everyone will accept you can come back to that um if

[84:39]it pops in feel free to jump in um thank you for

[84:42]that refutation once it's there um there is an interesting uh question

[84:45]that's been put out by min halba who says does the panel

[84:51]against the motion realize that the only reason islam is the fastest

[84:54]growing religion in the west or the world is because of its

[84:59]increased birth rate so there you go you've been shown up by

[85:01]the pharmacist i think that um we're talking about people converting to

[85:06]islam not necessarily being born muslim so i don't understand how increased

[85:10]birth rate when we're talking about someone who's grown a christian his

[85:16]whole life chooses to convert to islam and islam does have the

[85:21]greatest conversion rate so it has nothing to do with birth rate

[85:22]um interesting um yeah there is another comment that's come in uh

[85:33]fatimati jafar says that isa produced a resale but for muslims in

[85:37]the west the title itself acknowledges the western muslim identity um the

[85:43]we we are this is going great unfortunately we're running out of

[85:47]time and we really want to address all questions unfortunately we cannot

[85:50]um brother mohammed abbas jafar has a question that has been upvoted

[85:55]but i will let him call in and expand on his question

[87:11]um proposes anyone opposes if no one else will i'll give it

[87:20]okay brother hardy has his hand up so i don't know if

[87:22]he wanted to reply that sorry or um okay um so basically

[87:30]when there are there are some standard uh you know universal definition

[87:36]sorry uncle uncle patrick i'm so so sorry um it we've just

[87:40]received a comment to say that they didn't hear mj's question i

[87:44]think that might be on youtube side i'm not entirely sure what's

[87:50]going on um but mohammed could we please ask you to perhaps

[87:52]put your question in the youtube comments and highlight it um and

[87:56]then this way the judges know as well as the audience what

[88:02]question was asked um so sorry about this and uncle pedrock i'll

[88:05]let you take over again thank you okay yes um so basically

[88:13]one core um principle in in the western um mindset is uh

[88:20]colonialism or religious polarism or ethical colorism that that's that's a well-known

[88:28]fact in a sense that that by definition it means that whatever

[88:30]you believe in it is your interpretation of truth there isn't no

[88:39]um exterior truth there isn't no absolute truth out there so whatever

[88:42]you believe in is valid for you and you have the right

[88:46]to believe in it and that's just good for for you okay

[88:52]our arguments is based around that because with that mindset whatever you

[88:57]do in terms of uh behavior in terms of lifestyle in terms

[89:04]of even even weaknesses you know within within your mental state um

[89:09]you think that okay everybody is uh different everybody's entitled to their

[89:16]opinion and you don't have any you have no courage to correct

[89:19]yourself when there is no independent correctness okay when they say islam

[89:28]christian and jerusalem atheism they're all the same okay they're just people

[89:33]being um they are created because people have been in different places

[89:37]in the world okay that mindset results in such life aside okay

[89:44]and you know we i think the proposing team have been keeps

[89:48]keeping saying that you're not talking about the the country we're not

[89:54]talking about the language we're talking about the mindset yes you can

[89:59]pray you can't say ash yes at the same time if you

[90:05]if if at the same time we respect all religions everything equally

[90:11]okay that's that's that has a self conflicting now does it mean

[90:17]that i go around and this disrespect other religions no we have

[90:21]a concept called getting along not through pluralism in a sense that

[90:27]you have reasons to believe that you are correct not because we

[90:33]are based on your ego or selfishness but based on uh what

[90:39]we know as reason logic which is delivered to you by allah

[90:42]and when the prophets and animals now if others don't agree with

[90:50]you it doesn't evaluate um your belief okay i i i refer

[90:58]to this statement from um hazard of um in her speech she

[91:05]states that if all people around the world turn against allah allah

[91:10]is needless from them okay this is this should be a foundation

[91:14]in our lives that what we believe in is it has an

[91:22]independent certification if you like from the most superior power however yes

[91:28]people are free to agree with us or disagree with us it

[91:32]doesn't matter besides we never stated that the western system and islamic

[91:40]system are 100 against each other no certainly whatever that has got

[91:48]a positive effect without compromising on other people's right is islamic okay

[91:54]like i said having order in society it is definitely islamic why

[91:58]is it that islam in his deathbed commands people to have um

[92:06]and order in their affairs so these two as far as islam

[92:11]is concerned a hand in hand together the problem starts when a

[92:16]man-made ideology takes bits of something and leaves some others which doesn't

[92:23]suit its benefits or interest aside so that would be my answer

[92:30]to brother's question thank you very much so much um just for

[92:33]the audience's benefit unfortunately we missed out the question so muhammad abbas

[92:37]may i please ask you to repeat your question has number number

[92:40]one number two has uncle pedrak answered your question and number three

[92:44]does the against uh team have anything to add to that uh

[92:49]thank you uh sister khaleej i'm sorry that you couldn't hear me

[92:54]earlier my question was and thank you to brother pejor for answering

[92:57]my question was is that the proposers have presented a particular view

[93:01]of western identity for example which includes references to materialism drinking culture

[93:08]the poor state of public toilets for example um saying that these

[93:12]things were incompatible with islam and my question was that firstly are

[93:17]we not stereotyping western culture in the same way that we have

[93:21]condemned the stereotyping of muslims um and um so my question was

[93:27]is western culture not instead of being a single well-defined viewpoint or

[93:34]identity is it not more of a uh you know a culture

[93:38]of freedom to express yourself including in a way that would be

[93:41]considered islamic the the um ability for muslims to be able to

[93:46]express themselves in a western way but i do thank brother uh

[93:50]pajama for for answering uh with this point about the fact that

[93:54]they are not necessarily uh mutually exclusive um and so uh yeah

[93:58]i i hope uh everyone's been able to hear me this time

[94:02]and sorry for the issue earlier thank you so much mohammed we

[94:05]have been told that we could hear you so thank you so

[94:10]much um i'm going to ask someone from the opposing team to

[94:11]come in and this will be the final comment before we move

[94:15]on running out of time unfortunately thank you um yeah i'm happy

[94:20]to to take this uh thank you so i mean brother hadi

[94:23]again i think um i think we need you on our side

[94:27]as well because you're making arguments for us in terms of uh

[94:30]being against the emotion so you know you mentioned that is a

[94:34]case of that um not 100 percent of western values are at

[94:39]loggerheads with 100 of islamic values and it's exactly the point that

[94:45]we are making that it is absolutely possible to be a western

[94:48]muslim because there are many things within western culture and western ideals

[94:51]that are perfectly in line with islamic values things we talked about

[94:55]the freedom of speech the freedom of expression the rule of law

[95:00]democracy all these are principles which are in line and inc and

[95:07]compatible with our islamic culture so and i think sometimes i think

[95:12]the point you mentioned you know perhaps is is is going uh

[95:16]over over complicated things i think if we look at things in

[95:18]the general sense and how most people would understand what a western

[95:24]uh ideal is most people would say that islam is compatible with

[95:30]it and that we can practice our faith in such a way

[95:32]so as to still stay true to our faith and take the

[95:36]bits of western culture and identity that we please but western culture

[95:42]in itself does not compel you and impose anything upon you which

[95:46]means that we are free to take what we please and that

[95:50]perhaps and then same with islam there is no compulsion in religion

[95:54]we hear in the quran in in a in a true islamic

[95:57]society you cannot compel people to follow the religion which perhaps is

[96:01]not the case in some so-called islamic countries today so the way

[96:05]i see it we have the best of both worlds we have

[96:08]the ability to practice our faith freely and we have the benefit

[96:14]of certain western principles that are compatible with islamic uh values which

[96:18]perhaps you would not get in eastern countries so i think i

[96:22]will leave it for that thank you thank you so much and

[96:27]thank you so much everyone the audience please forgive me for not

[96:30]being able to address every single comment or question that's come in

[96:32]but we've been truly overwhelmed i really don't want to end the

[96:36]segment we were just saying you know we don't need questions we

[96:38]have a full-on discussion going on here thank you so much to

[96:41]everyone for participating in this free-for-all segment i'm now going to hand

[96:46]over to sanji dabai for our final closing arguments thank you so

[96:52]much everybody we had scheduled in about 15 minutes and we just

[96:57]didn't want to stop there um some really um thought-provoking arguments you

[97:03]know presented on both sides and i think you know we'll come

[97:07]away from this debate uh still mulling things over in our head

[97:11]so now we'll move on to the final part of the debate

[97:16]where we invite the fourth speaker to come and give their closing

[97:18]arguments so on the proposing side i would like to invite sister

[97:26]fatima mendali to present the team's closing arguments sister fatima and fatima

[97:33]t uh your time starts now father entity your time starts now

[97:44]you're muted fatima wait okay for this in this case i'm going

[97:49]to stop the timer and i'm going to do it again um

[97:55]apologies i had difficulties with the technology that's that's fine i'm going

[97:58]to start your time now i [Applause] where do i begin well

[98:09]i think the opposition party have done a huge favor starting with

[98:12]hawaii thank you very much for that opening statement with the in

[98:18]the attack that is exactly what i would bring to today so

[98:23]allah has created us in different tribes and and to so that

[98:28]we know each other certainly the most noble in the state of

[98:31]allah is he who has taken now a soros tapo is concerned

[98:36]it comes from the word we fire which means meaning protection and

[98:42]now when we look at this word um the word itself we

[98:48]try to define it in our western um acquired or integrated languages

[98:53]we cannot find the definition and therefore ironically we may feel taqwa

[98:58]in our hearts we may experience it and we may even observe

[99:02]taqwa in in the state of being yet we cannot define it

[99:07]in a language which is assimilated and therefore the argument being that

[99:11]we need universality of the quranic language which is the language in

[99:16]the law now alhamdulillah we have something in common all of us

[99:20]and i think we should celebrate our um commonalities in the face

[99:26]of being ramadan and the sake of unity we are all muslims

[99:29]alhamdulillah and so was nabi ibrahim um allah subhanahu wa'ta'ala says in

[99:36]the quran ibrahim ghana muslim so he was the word of good

[99:38]and muslim and yet the western world painters the muslims with muhammad

[99:43]only because they characterize him with characters all over the place and

[99:49]they want us to fit a narrative which um fits their narrative

[99:52]and i'm not saying and i'm again i'm not saying that everything

[99:57]in the west is is bad i'm here i live in the

[100:00]west and i celebrate my identity but we have to make a

[100:05]distinction between what it is that with allah what is the criteria

[100:07]of success with allah so now on the other hand we have

[100:17]arabia so there's one side maybe ibrahim geographically far apart place i

[100:23]don't know for the bravery of time with not even going there

[100:25]but there's muhammad in arabia so people like us the muslims who

[100:30]follow muhammad the arabs the the bedouins say amanda we believe in

[100:36]you and they were told hang on hold your horses you don't

[100:41]believe anything say aslan say we have submitted because islam means submission

[100:45]so there are levels that we need to clarify so when we

[100:48]say aslam now because then you say why is that well because

[100:53]the the the faith has not yet entered your heart so now

[100:55]we're moving from taqwa to the state of heart why is that

[100:58]because the heart is the place where allah subhanahu wa resides because

[101:04]as you know in arabic the heart is a cult is something

[101:09]that is constantly transforming evolving moving tending so the turning is towards

[101:14]the fitrat allah has created us for which is to turn to

[101:20]him allah is the one who who are you loves those who

[101:28]turn to him so what is the argument today there's two points

[101:32]one is that a to be a muslim or to accept it

[101:37]we have to accept it with our heart which again is the

[101:40]northern which is multi-dimensional when we look at the heart there's the

[101:43]pumping heart some of you are pharmacists and doctors you would know

[101:45]that so i'm escaping that and there is the other dimension which

[101:48]is the spiritual the car the the heart is the fraud allah

[101:55]says the whole universe will not perceive me it will not understand

[101:59]me but a heart of men a believer will contain me so

[102:01]if you want to know where allah is geographically where we are

[102:05]east west i just wonder that if this argument or if this

[102:10]um this debate was been in hell held the north pole or

[102:13]south pole would we be saying northern muslims or certain muslims it

[102:17]just doesn't make sense so allah knows he knows exactly what is

[102:23]hidden in our hearts so when it comes to the heart we

[102:28]read to your faith so the the faith is established by the

[102:38]heart allah lives in the heart because this is the heart that

[102:43]when we go back to allah subhanahu wa ta'ala malayan nothing that

[102:47]in this world will matter anymore all these accumulations of western world

[102:52]and wanting more and um capitalism will stay behind only the one

[103:01]who is going to go to allah with the pure and purified

[103:04]heart so my dear opponents esteem colleagues with all due respect there

[103:11]cannot be east or west there cannot be a muslim identity which

[103:15]is different to what we are discussing because east or west alhamdulillah

[103:20]islam is the best thank you sister fatima i love that analogy

[103:31]and your expansion on taqwa and you know that allah lives in

[103:35]in our hearts transform your heart and that is how you will

[103:41]transform your faith and i loved your your line you know east

[103:47]or west islam is the best or allies the best so thank

[103:49]you so much for that um and i would now like to

[103:54]invite brother rithar huda to make the closing statements please for the

[103:57]opposing team uh your time starts now thank you so to summarize

[104:08]my dear audience thank you once uh firstly to our uh esteemed

[104:13]opponents for their arguments in this debate so a reminder to the

[104:18]audience this the emotion is that this house believes that there can

[104:23]be no western muslim identity so let's get back to what the

[104:28]emotion is and as uh my esteemed colleague sister sabine mentioned at

[104:33]the very beginning this is just a case of fact western muslim

[104:36]identity it's a question of fact do we live in the west

[104:41]yes we do do we class ourselves as british muslims living in

[104:44]britain yes we do would american muslims living in america class themselves

[104:49]as american muslims yes they do we're not talking about ideology here

[104:53]we're simply talking about identity if i asked you in the audience

[104:57]to tick a box and perhaps in the census you probably did

[105:00]as to how you identify yourselves i'm sure you would have no

[105:05]qualms identifying as a british muslim you are not by disclosing yourself

[105:09]as a british muslim assigning yourself to everything that that that would

[105:16]be considered ideal in british culture you're merely saying that i'm muslim

[105:21]and i live in britain and i'm proud to live in this

[105:24]country which affords me the ability to practice my faith freely to

[105:29]express myself freely no doubt there are times when it can be

[105:33]a challenge to practice our faith in the west and there are

[105:37]no bones about it this was raised by the opposition and we

[105:40]accept that in certain countries france for example it has been difficult

[105:45]but as we said jihad is part of our faith it is

[105:49]a an integral part of our fate of the attempt of our

[105:51]faith that we will have to struggle in every part even when

[105:56]islam was being revealed in the time of idea prophet there was

[106:00]struggle going on to practice our faith in the time of the

[106:01]utter date there was struggle going on to practice to openly come

[106:08]out as shia because of of the political situation at the time

[106:13]but it's all about it's about integration we are not saying that

[106:18]we because it becomes difficult that we should assimilate into british culture

[106:24]and just become one of them no we are integrating with the

[106:27]aspects of western culture that is in line with islamic culture and

[106:33]like we said before there are many so-called western values that are

[106:37]in line with our islamic values much more than can be said

[106:40]for certain so-called islamic countries things like freedom of speech freedom of

[106:47]expression democracy protest human rights welfare state the rights of women freedom

[106:52]of religion animal rights and the list goes on and most importantly

[106:58]protection from prosecution because we have the rule of law the same

[107:01]could not be said in certain islamic countries where we would be

[107:04]prosecuted we would not be given a free trial for example as

[107:09]we saw with so many of our ulama in places like saudi

[107:12]arabia who would be imprisoned without any basis whatsoever would not get

[107:18]the ability to be able to go to a court of law

[107:25]to to freely uh uh justify their case why did we come

[107:28]here in the first place why do we all migrate to the

[107:32]west because of the quality of educational establishments it is it is

[107:37]an accepted fact that the best educational establishments exist in the west

[107:41]which is why we came here in the first place the may

[107:44]and the western advances in technology have created things like the internet

[107:47]for us to be able to have conversations like this it's western

[107:51]advances that have created things like youtube from which islam has been

[107:56]propagated at an unprecedented rate which is why we're getting so many

[108:02]conversions because there are platforms and mediums like youtube and other media

[108:07]channels that allow us to propagate our message that allows our scholars

[108:12]to be able to teach the the religion and to spread our

[108:18]message far and wide touching all corners of the globe this happened

[108:21]in the west it did not happen in the east and i

[108:26]would ask my dear opposition that if not west then where is

[108:31]there really a country in the world which is 100 perfect is

[108:33]there this 100 utopia where we can go to and say that

[108:37]yes this is what we this country or east wherever it is

[108:41]you know there is not no place in the world that is

[108:43]perfect so finally i would say what is better to live in

[108:48]a country where we are free to practice there despite others that

[108:52]that maybe don't or live in a country where we have restrictions

[108:55]on practicing freely so to conclude finally on clean water in toilets

[109:03]just to that point uh identity is question of fact there can

[109:05]be absolutely a western muslim identity and one that we can be

[109:13]proud of thank you very much brother i i loved how you

[109:21]um said i i would like to ask the other team when

[109:23]you know that they cannot come back with a reputation i thought

[109:26]that was very clever um you know a fantastic summary um again

[109:33]you know uh reinforcing the fact that you do not necessarily assign

[109:38]yourself to everything in this culture even though you regard yourself as

[109:44]a western muslim or a british muslim that actually focusing on those

[109:51]aspects um of western culture that align with islamic ideology and you

[109:56]know followed up with the examples that you gave um and i

[110:03]really liked um how you you know said that we are propagating

[110:06]our religion through media through channels you know and means such as

[110:12]youtube which are essentially you know western inventions so you know thank

[110:18]you for your summary um right so that concludes the debate section

[110:23]i think you know both teams we would you know myself and

[110:28]collegiate we were just blown away by the arguments and you know

[110:33]the level that you guys have come in with taking into consideration

[110:38]that you know not everyone has had debating or public speaking experience

[110:44]you've all given strong structured arguments and i would like to ask

[110:49]the audience at home again to join us for a virtual recitation

[110:53]of a very very loud salawat for all the participants muhammad um

[111:06]now it's time for the judges to confer uh we don't envy

[111:12]their role after witnessing what we have done um we do have

[111:18]an interesting interactive segment lined up in the meantime though while the

[111:24]judges are convening so i'd like to look back at the results

[111:30]of poll 1 where we had about 93 of people who um

[111:34]were opposed to the motion who believed that actually yes there can

[111:39]be a western muslim identity so we can see that there's a

[111:46]very skewed and polarized viewpoint almost unanimous in in favor of one

[111:51]particular side of the debate in favor of the opposing team which

[111:56]means as i mentioned there isn't a level playing field so to

[112:01]judge the winners of the debate um by the audience if there

[112:07]is already a strong disposition to one side um isn't fair so

[112:12]that's why the winners will be decided by the judges who've been

[112:17]provided with their criteria we do want to get an idea though

[112:22]of how well the audience members took to the arguments that were

[112:26]presented so their audience taking into account what you've heard today from

[112:31]both our teams are still of the same opinion we'd like you

[112:37]to go back on slido um and enter the same code two

[112:44]six nine five zero poll two is running um so please answer

[112:49]have having tuned into the debate do you think there can be

[112:56]a western muslim identity yes or no so please do vote on

[113:02]poll two regarding the motion poll two is open but not for

[113:07]too long um al-mahdi madrasa would like to share the help the

[113:13]hungry campaign and poll 2 will close after the video segment so

[113:20]please do jump on to poll 2 on slido i'm looking at

[113:23]the results of the polls i've hidden it from the audience it

[113:26]will be announced later but i'm looking at it right now and

[113:28]it's getting interesting it's really getting interesting every year [Music] please [Music]

[114:46][Music] the hungry okay so as mentioned um there is still time

[115:30]to donate until this friday the 14th of may as you know

[115:35]the covid pandemic has really hit communities hard and in fact that

[115:44]is the very reason we are gathering birch but really that's such

[115:49]a minor issue in light of you know things like increased poverty

[115:53]levels and reliance on food banks so please let's take advantage of

[116:00]these last remaining days of maher ramadan to help the hungry in

[116:04]our local communities poll 2 is now closed and the results will

[116:10]be announced towards the end and now there is one final poll

[116:19]so you the audience will decide who the two best speakers are

[116:25]one on each team so again please do go to slido.com if

[116:28]you're not on there already and enter the code 26950 now poll

[116:36]3 is multi-select based on what you've heard today please vote for

[116:42]the best speaker in your opinion in each team so you need

[116:46]to select one speaker from the proposing team which should say four

[116:51]in brackets and one speaker from the opposing team which should stay

[116:57]against in brackets so you will be voting for two different speakers

[117:03]please make sure that they are on different teams and not the

[117:07]same team or we will have an issue with numbers and the

[117:12]winners um voted for by our audience will be announced at the

[117:16]end by sheikh fuzler class i'll now pass over to um sister

[117:25]canada you so much it's time to buy um so we're going

[117:27]to leave the poll open um but in the meantime i do

[117:31]have some exciting news so when we started off this initiative of

[117:35]setting up a whole debating platform um we have a much bigger

[117:39]vision in our heads it's not just about this one of event

[117:42]for entertainment purposes but rather it is to enable our community members

[117:47]to get together develop those public speaking skills debates together um and

[117:52]of course like we talked about in earlier it's such a transferable

[117:56]life skill uh so in light of that and the overwhelming response

[118:01]that we got from the members of west extremat um this is

[118:05]not the only debate we will be having insha'allah we will have

[118:08]a second debate um on the 29th of may so not too

[118:14]long to go and that will have a brand new panel of

[118:20]speakers the motion will be this house believes that the mother tongue

[118:24]has no future so i feel like we will have a lot

[118:29]of um opinions on that uh you can see the poster on

[118:32]your screens now the interesting bit is that the winners team from

[118:37]today's debate is going to go head to head with the winners

[118:40]team of next times debate 2.

[118:42]they will go together against each other in debate 3 the grand

[118:46]finale and that will be the winning team winning debating team of

[118:51]west extra month so please please please uh do pencil in the

[118:55]date in your diary do show up and do participate um of

[119:03]uh audience participation there is something that we would like to touch

[119:07]on very quickly uh sanji device one of the comments you mentioned

[119:11]that came in from the audience yes i think um it's unfortunately

[119:19]been posted as anonymous um so there can be a western muslim

[119:26]identity but it shouldn't be how we define ourselves we are muslims

[119:33]first and then we split into our creeds and sex and i

[119:36]would like to um i'd like you to think about what sister

[119:39]sabi has said in her opening statement that the whole premise of

[119:43]the motion is flawed and we actually specifically worded it in that

[119:49]way and what we really want to say is perhaps rather than

[119:57]identifying as western muslims or british muslims because putting that word first

[120:02]implies that that is the more important aspect should it instead be

[120:09]i'm a muslim brit or a muslim living in the west so

[120:13]that's something i really love to explore so kudaija i don't know

[120:18]if you want to weigh in on here or if anybody else

[120:20]wants to post any comments i think that's a very interesting way

[120:27]to spin the motion on its head um and i think identity

[120:30]is such a huge part of our lives um and i guess

[120:36]for i'm speaking as someone who has seen two different parts of

[120:40]the world i was born in kenya um lived there for 10

[120:45]years and then moved to portsmouth been living here ever since um

[120:48]so i have seen the eastern and the western side and it's

[120:51]it's hugely different um and and i think when if you were

[120:57]to ask me right now what place do i call home i

[121:01]would say portsmouth is home um because i'm just trying to think

[121:06]when i was younger everything was just everything was okay there was

[121:09]no space for me to grow as such you know mothers friends

[121:13]were the same school friends were the same um and then moved

[121:18]to portsmouth hated it hated having to you know explain to people

[121:21]why are you wearing a headscarf why are you wearing an abaya

[121:24]why are you um going away during uh lunch time to say

[121:29]your prayers and suddenly i felt really attacked um and for those

[121:32]of you who know um i hated that year i wanted to

[121:35]move back um and it was as a child it was very

[121:39]a very very traumatic experience for me so identity conflicts are huge

[121:45]um do you i'm asking you as someone who's been born and

[121:49]bred in wessex have you had any sort of identity conflicts i

[121:54]think i i did growing up because i was one of the

[121:59]very few muslims actually uh in my school and when i grew

[122:07]up um you know i didn't wear hijab until i was 16

[122:08]and i went for umrah so you know on on one hand

[122:17]it it was a little bit a little bit more difficult um

[122:21]i didn't have that culture growing up that we do now you

[122:26]know i look at my daughter and she is so lucky to

[122:32]have um two of her best friends in her school in her

[122:35]class with her you know they they decided to wear hijab together

[122:39]they go and they pray together and it's you know it's really

[122:46]amazing to see that however the girls that i grew up with

[122:49]um you know who are my closest friends to today um until

[122:54]today i view them as family i don't view them as my

[122:59]friends i view them as my sisters and having that support network

[123:02]is what you appreciate growing up and actually being born here you

[123:11]are you see so many different viewpoints and i have such a

[123:15]wide variety of friends and what i find is actually people can

[123:17]be very open-minded they want to know about you and you know

[123:23]you can't just be restricted to the person that you are you

[123:30]know going to mosque and having that same group of friends and

[123:32]as you know brother rita touched upon it is our duty to

[123:38]propagate our faith um you know to have those conversations to educate

[123:41]people and people know how how i am so they'll come and

[123:44]they'll ask me things openly at work or my enormous friends and

[123:53]it's really sorry have you ever been asked if you were um

[123:56]the headscarf yeah i mean yeah so the other thing that i've

[124:01]noticed about british society is that you know if you're born here

[124:06]and you're a brit or you've grown up here you adopt things

[124:08]from the culture so one thing that people love is a bit

[124:12]of banter if you can get them on your side with banter

[124:15]then that is is brilliant because it breaks down those barriers and

[124:20]it makes them think that you know what these people are like

[124:24]me they're no different so i had an incident um a few

[124:27]weeks ago i had a gentleman that i had in my clinic

[124:30]a lovely old man and he came in and he sat down

[124:33]and he said um you know you muslim women look lovely in

[124:40]those headscarves i've always wanted to tell somebody that that but i've

[124:43]never had the opportunity i said oh thank you and then you

[124:46]know bringing in a bit of management i said oh you know

[124:47]well it's great for a bad hair day and he chuckled away

[124:51]and then later on you know he he was fiddling about with

[124:56]his mask and he got so hot and he said i hate

[124:58]wearing these and i i turn around and i said you know

[125:02]what try wearing it with a hijab you end up looking like

[125:07]a post box and it took him a couple of moments to

[125:08]click but you know in that short conversation i had broken down

[125:15]you know the stigma around discussing a hijab but not only that

[125:19]like how western muslims and british muslims feel in this country you

[125:25]know a couple of years ago those of um us who cover

[125:31]our faces being referred to as post boxes and bank robbers and

[125:34]you know there are ways of having those conversations it's just finding

[125:40]the right way definitely um that's that's such a funny story i

[125:44]really love that personal touch um and i find it interesting that

[125:49]he this gentleman felt comfortable to come and say that to you

[125:52]um and that's already saying something perhaps about how um he views

[125:57]muslims already they're his perception of muslims um because i've had people

[126:01]in the past um you know they wouldn't approach me in the

[126:04]beginning but then when i eventually started talking and they'd be like

[126:07]i was so scared to come up to you um you know

[126:09]would you be offended or something and i said no ask me

[126:12]i'd rather you asked than assumed um and which that actually reminds

[126:15]me a funny story of when i was in school so i

[126:18]had told my friends and my teachers knew that you know i

[126:22]don't have any sort of physical contact with the opposite gender um

[126:24]and it's wonderful when i said that to my female friends they

[126:29]stuck by it and they would literally tell the other guys to

[126:31]just not you know when they started hugging just not don't touch

[126:33]kadeja um and then this guy came up to me and he

[126:38]asked so if i touched you would you have to wash yourself

[126:42]with acid and in that moment i was thinking wow where did

[126:45]that come from um so it's really wonderful that you were able

[126:48]to have even um in your professional life those sort of banter

[126:51]us kind of conversations um uh there was a question that i

[126:58]wanted to touch on um just give me a moment okay so

[127:16]here someone has said um sorry is are we having a caller

[127:20]coming in do you have one turning up there may be uh-huh

[127:27]okay well nothing so far um by the way if anyone from

[127:31]the audience would like to join our conversation uh please drop myself

[127:35]wasajida by a message and we can give you the information uh

[127:40]joining link information just wanted to say so this has been the

[127:43]very first debate in wessex which is super super exciting and i

[127:47]think it's gone down really well today alhamdulillah um when i was

[127:52]growing up debating wasn't an odd thing it wasn't a new event

[127:56]in mumbasa it was so common um it was you know i

[127:59]think that's maybe just east african culture there was a lot of

[128:01]debating in our jamaat um and i guess when you move to

[128:04]westlakes you realize there are quite a few differences some pros some

[128:09]cons and one thing that immediately i noticed was if you see

[128:11]in a small jamaat if you see a new face you turn

[128:14]around and then you go to them and you say salaam and

[128:17]i love that even vasa you wouldn't do that at least when

[128:18]i was there because there's such a huge amount you stick to

[128:22]yourself um and this is what one of the things that i

[128:24]love about wessex the culture of wessex um it's really very much

[128:31]like a family um and i wondered whether anyone had anyone from

[128:34]anyone from the audience had anything to add about any differences um

[128:38]what they love about wessex if you've been born elsewhere if you've

[128:42]been brought up elsewhere what's it like being part of wessex remember

[128:51]we have a slider that's open um and the code is 26950

[129:00]i think also not just how you're finding being part of wessex

[129:06]but you know like kadeja's experience actually growing up in east africa

[129:09]um you know what do you find when you moved here to

[129:14]wessex jamaat what were the differences what do you appreciate from back

[129:19]home that what do you appreciate here and where do you now

[129:22]view as home where is the place that you ideally want to

[129:27]bring up your children um and i think we're in such a

[129:34]unique position to be able to discuss that and definitely kadeja wessex

[129:38]is known as the friendliest jamaat on the planet so i'm not

[129:43]gonna say names but saturn i'm talking about you um i'd like

[129:51]to add to that by the question that you asked um so

[129:56]the kind of things that i do today alhamdulillah are a fruit

[130:00]of wessex and for everyone who's listening i want to sincerely thank

[130:03]you for being a part of my upbringing being a part of

[130:08]my family um sometimes i wonder if you know i didn't have

[130:12]the opportunities that i've had in wessex would i be the person

[130:14]that i am today and the big answer is i highly doubt

[130:18]it is no um the fact that we have specific tailored um

[130:23]kind of events opportunities for people to get involved um whereas in

[130:28]perhaps in bigger dramats maybe it'd be easier for you to get

[130:30]hidden behind the crowd um so having seen that kind of difference

[130:35]i guess to me is really striking the difference in culture um

[130:42]also on that point later somebody has um raised a comment which

[130:48]says do not raise your children the way that your your parents

[130:53]raised you because they were born a different time and can you

[130:56]extrapolate that to a place as well you know do not raise

[131:02]them in consideration of the place where you were born because you

[131:05]know where they are is ultimately different so you tailor everything according

[131:13]to the time and place where your child is so for example

[131:18]you know when we were growing up um certain things you know

[131:23]you wouldn't talk to your parents about whereas in western culture it's

[131:27]it's very open but i think what you find is that if

[131:31]you grew up with um if you were first generation and you

[131:36]grew up with parents who had grown up in east africa you

[131:39]might not be able to have those conversations but seeing the way

[131:43]that the culture is now uh you're inclined to be um you

[131:49]know more open with your children and subjects that were possibly taboo

[131:56]before are not anymore and that is you know one way of

[131:59]saying that you know i'm raising my child because they're in they're

[132:04]born in a different time but they're also born in a different

[132:08]place so according accordingly you can tailor both aspects definitely i think

[132:16]with the being open is important now more than any other time

[132:21]because of what has been going on in schools for example the

[132:25]rc curriculum um and his parents obviously don't address that openly and

[132:29]speak about a topic that you know when i was younger maybe

[132:33]would have been taboo i mean i didn't even know at the

[132:34]time and now it's such a normal thing um but if parents

[132:38]obviously don't speak about that openly then where do our children get

[132:43]their reference from um so 100 um being open about such things

[132:48]obviously has come with the culture that we're living in um a

[132:52]comment says from someone says that the problem with culture i i

[132:56]love it all but people mix it with religion um and i

[133:01]guess i think with culture it's an interesting thing because there are

[133:06]definitely some wonderful things that come with culture but also some very

[133:09]toxic things or things that are not particularly helpful um to the

[133:13]extent where it becomes religion when in fact it is not um

[133:18]and it does become a bit difficult for people to put the

[133:25]two apart uh oh someone someone has said i love the almaty

[133:29]center it's such a friendly family i wish it was naomi um

[133:32]whoever comment whoever's comment that was i wish we have the monkey

[133:37]center open again soon inshaallah um so that we can all gather

[133:40]um together for our gatherings i said gather quite a lot there

[133:45]that's because we want together we want together we have together together

[133:49]with everybody soon inshallah so going back to that point that the

[133:55]person made about mixing religion and culture i think for example it

[133:59]was brought up during the debate that the whole um aspect of

[134:02]azadari and how we do azadari and the fact that a lot

[134:07]of our uh noha's um are in are in urdu and you

[134:12]know there is sometimes resistance to changing that and you know it's

[134:17]it's not always met with positively and i think that's something that

[134:21]can be left for the next debate because i think it brings

[134:25]a whole new level that you know are we mixing are we

[134:32]mixing culture uh with with our faith there so you know that's

[134:36]that's true yeah i mean i definitely have some very uh passionate

[134:39]points on that topic but i shall not get to it before

[134:43]the debate too we'll leave uh it for the speakers of debate

[134:49]two to uh give us their points um living in the west

[134:57]as it challenges uh but at the same time it enhances your

[134:59]belief structures and allows you to challenge yourself to stay within our

[135:07]religion um i think all of us can say that something like

[135:10]that may have happened to us um maybe for the younger teenagers

[135:16]they will be finding themselves at a time in their life where

[135:18]they'll have to push themselves beyond the boundary of islamic syria um

[135:22]and then perhaps we learn and then we find our way back

[135:26]um but i think certainly the the younger generation the next generation

[135:30]will have a tough living in the west but inshallah i hope

[135:33]that this gets them some more uh i think i think we're

[135:41]going back to the point that you know living here is our

[135:44]own form of jihad you know it's our struggle and that's what

[135:48]allah will look at we're not living in a country where it's

[135:53]normal to wear hijab it's normal to pray it is normal to

[135:57]eat you know halal food so we have our our own struggle

[136:00]but that in itself makes you explore and it makes you you

[136:05]know a lot prouder of your identity and i've just been reading

[136:09]uh a book by shelina mohammed called generation m which touches on

[136:17]these very um you know very important aspects and one thing that

[136:22]she's mentioned is that actually this younger generation are really proud of

[136:28]their faith and they center everything around it more so than their

[136:34]parents and they're not um apologetic with it either they're not apologists

[136:37]um they can enjoy life they can enjoy the culture but it's

[136:40]all within um tenets of their faith and another thing i wanted

[136:45]to bring in i don't think this was touched on um it

[136:48]was touched on slightly during the debate but it was that you

[136:54]know so-called islamic countries do not have um islamic values now there

[137:01]was um some research conducted by a professor um hussein oscary where

[137:07]he and it was something called the islamicity index where he looked

[137:11]at all the countries in the world and he ranked them according

[137:19]to their islamic values and they looked at things like economy legal

[137:25]and governance structures human rights and political rights and international relations and

[137:30]the countries coming out on top i think ireland was top one

[137:33]year new zealand was top um and unfortunately a lot of the

[137:38]muslim countries were very far down on the list i think the

[137:43]first one to appear was the uae and that was a kind

[137:48]of position 46 so you know it goes to show that just

[137:50]because you don't live in an islamic a muslim country doesn't mean

[137:56]that you cannot um follow your faith and i believe that our

[138:04]judges have have come back is there anything you wanted to add

[138:09]today or any other comments on the on this screen no all

[138:11]are all good i just wanted to say that the poll um

[138:18]is still going but we will be closing it shortly so if

[138:21]you haven't voted yet please do on slido two six nine five

[138:24]zero okay okay so um we hope everybody enjoyed that discussion we

[138:36]were really hoping some people would join us on the zoom call

[138:40]but inshallah be prepared for next time if you post on slido

[138:45]with your name we will send you the zoom link so you

[138:50]can join us up here um and thank you to those who

[138:52]did actually comment on slido to help guide our discussion um so

[139:03]um poll three is it closed now kadeja okay i think we

[139:08]have it yeah okay so poll three is closed so now we

[139:12]move on to the segment that everybody has been waiting for so

[139:17]our judges welcome back um before we pass over to you i'd

[139:22]like to talk a little bit more about our judges so uncle

[139:30]shabir the absolute heart of our beloved wessex family you need no

[139:33]introduction but i will provide one anyway so uncle shabir actually has

[139:39]been supporting us from the beginning he participated in monthly debates in

[139:44]mombasa's debating society and as i mentioned he's backed this event from

[139:49]the start he is heavily involved in local charity work and his

[139:55]vision and passion is to safeguard the future generations within the bounds

[140:01]of the islamic faith and perpetuate the love of the afflay shabeer

[140:05]uncle is an avid cook and a lover of nature a hobby

[140:10]that our beautiful herb garden at the al-mahi center will testify to

[140:14]um i will not tell you that somebody spilled the beans about

[140:21]a running joke in the family uh that you can fall asleep

[140:24]standing up apparently and even after a strong espresso but taking in

[140:32]mind all the things you do i'm not surprised that you're that

[140:37]exhausted uncle shabir so welcome good asia judges um on the judging

[140:45]panel we also have uh sister shamim manji uh sisters i say

[140:49]sister really i call you shamimanti dante monti is a born and

[140:54]bred member of the wessex community she is qualified is achieved a

[140:58]qualified solicitor charitable trustee hr professional and a mom to three really

[141:03]wonderful children she holds two master's degrees in commercial law and human

[141:08]resource management jimmy monty is currently studying towards a certificate in mental

[141:13]health awareness whilst working as an hr specialist advising senior leadership teams

[141:18]in a local multi-academy schools trust uh having worked with joey monty

[141:22]i can say that she is one of the most inspiring people

[141:26]i know a wondrous ability to establish a genuine connection with others

[141:30]and to see the best in them really really leaves me in

[141:36]all um as can be said of a few others you have

[141:38]met today shimmy monty is truly a supermom in every sense with

[141:42]a passion for exploring new places and cultures uh most recently learning

[141:48]to ski with her family in the alps wow that's on my

[141:50]bucket list uh shamimati is looking forward to traveling soon uh inshallah

[141:55]when the restrictions ease up so salinikum tea and welcome we'd also

[142:00]like to welcome back uh brother muhammad hassan banji who is also

[142:06]in the judging panel he moved to assets in 2012 to read

[142:10]law at the university of portsmouth followed by a postgrad and lpc

[142:14]at durham university from a young age muhammad hassan has been an

[142:18]avid debater participating in various inter-school and community debates he has represented

[142:24]the mumbasta jamaat at the african federation debates and participated in the

[142:28]model united nations conference as a delegate given his extensive experience and

[142:32]expertise in articulated debating it is no surprise that muhammad hassan is

[142:37]a holder of multiple awards and i'm sorry but i have to

[142:41]cut it down here so some of them include best speaker awards

[142:44]first resolution awards at the mun you won the law society cross

[142:50]examination he also represented his university so from participating in prestigious for

[142:53]her forums such as the edinburgh cup and nanda novice to judging

[142:57]the dharam oxford open program camp uh muhammad hassan has seen it

[143:03]all in the debating arena muhammad also is also one of the

[143:06]organizers of today's event so between planning for the debate and keeping

[143:10]up with ramadan he has been frequently dreaming of the family favorite

[143:15]snack samosas i will let you i will let him explain to

[143:18]you why he's been obsessed with samosas um but we're also informed

[143:24]that muhammad hassan is good at starting fires and i do hope

[143:26]that that is in the context of camping but jokes aside uh

[143:31]whilst he has been behind the scenes very much today muhammad also

[143:34]has tirelessly worked on this project and has acted as our debating

[143:41]expert so we welcome the judges with us um participants may request

[143:53]you to turn your video cameras on we really want the audience

[143:56]to see you um oh sorry i we have somebody who has

[144:03]joined the segment but we're actually a little bit late for that

[144:09]um so could we ask you uh to to exit or turn

[144:12]off your video and mike please thank you very much not you

[144:17]brother you're fine brother hardy thank you and can the um participants

[144:27]turn on their their videos please [Applause] um i must say very

[144:40]very flattering introduction malaysia um you know i i'd also like to

[144:46]point out that you know uh science dubai and khadeja have worked

[144:51]tirelessly um on this project i have taken the back seat and

[144:58]you know i i joined their course to try and make them

[144:59]laugh and bring some entertainment but they've been doing all the work

[145:02]um inshallah you know we've had a very good conversation uh myself

[145:07]and and my fellow to his team judges um and we've decided

[145:13]to break uh you know you know this that the next 15

[145:15]minutes down as follows i will be providing feedback to the proposing

[145:21]team um bonji who's actually in my car i will be providing

[145:27]the feedback for the opposing team and uh burabi sharankal will be

[145:34]providing feedback for the free-for-all and with the final decision so if

[145:38]you've been waiting for the decision i'm sorry you have two other

[145:40]people to listen to really quickly try and keep it short and

[145:47]and sweet um my overall feedback for the proposing team a um

[145:52]line of arguments came in strong you know very well researched arguments

[145:57]um i like the way that you know there was there was

[146:02]a similar tone being pulled by by the whole team you know

[146:04]you argued the line very well that western is geographical ester is

[146:11]an ideology and each of you came and pulled that line that

[146:16]was brilliant um the one thing i'd like to see improve is

[146:18]your time management three of the four speakers across the five-minute line

[146:23]um it wasn't too massive in this in in this situation but

[146:27]it is something you can get severely marked down for um starting

[146:31]off with the first speaker uh muntazir uh montezuma draft and the

[146:36]first people from the reporting uh beginning was spot on you know

[146:41]it was really heavy really strong i love the philosophical arguments the

[146:45]fact that you had in history you know you had a you

[146:49]had a good dose of evidence um the one thing i'd like

[146:53]to see you know in in in an opening section going forward

[146:57]uh you know that would be a layout would be a roadmap

[147:01]you know where you break down you know the arguments that your

[147:04]team is going to have and and and and this is another

[147:07]point that judges picked up on it you know your content was

[147:11]brilliant it was very strong but it was a bit too strong

[147:13]uh you know so build up to it slowly it's it's you

[147:17]know it's clear you're operating at a different wavelength and then than

[147:21]everybody else but inshallah try and try and you know and gradually

[147:24]speak about other than that brilliant oratory you know overall super and

[147:29]the second speaker uncle had pedro um uncle hadi you know you

[147:34]started off with a rebuttal and i absolutely love that one thing

[147:39]about debating is that it's the liquidity of the debate and you

[147:43]came on with a rebuttal straight away you know you told the

[147:46]line as i said earlier about western location and and west not

[147:50]being a location but being an ideology um i like how you

[147:55]transition from one point to the other that was brilliant um the

[147:59]two things that maybe i would try and improv you know add

[148:02]going forward would one be a clarity of argument so you know

[148:05]tie in one point completely you know and dwell into it to

[148:10]its maximum before you go on to the next and the other

[148:14]thing is maybe you know they know when they're fasting but more

[148:17]you know a bit more zeal a bit more oomph when you're

[148:21]speaking you know a notch up like like like sister fatima did

[148:28]and i'll come to that in a bit i'm the third speaker

[148:30]about um about honestly that was absolutely amazing i you know i

[148:36]don't think i could mark you down on on much i think

[148:40]you are really brilliant in a lot of aspects you know you

[148:43]you came in heavy with rebuttals there's one thing you mentioned i

[148:49]think the person before you spoke about israel and saudi arabia you

[148:51]came in and you tied that into the western ideology saying that's

[148:55]because of the western influence i found that very interesting um you

[148:59]know you know the fact that you tied some of the rebuttals

[149:03]into your points make them seem very uh you know very flawless

[149:07]um you took a bit of a bustling gun approaching in the

[149:09]middle which i really liked when you know you went on your

[149:13]hit you hit a lot of points um at one point that

[149:15]was absolutely brilliant the only thing i would say to that is

[149:19]as brilliantly it is a bit difficult so next time you know

[149:21]you executed it brilliantly i would only add a bit more uh

[149:25]tone you know tone fluctuation and a bit more uh you know

[149:31]uh points where you know points of excitement within them if if

[149:35]possible um the last speaker from the proposing time uh from the

[149:41]proposing team sorry sister fatima uh you know when it came to

[149:48]origin you were something else you know you your tone control the

[149:53]way you delivered um you know it's just the way you you

[149:57]you went through a point you know you took us through the

[149:59]emotions of the world and one thing i really liked was the

[150:03]way you broke things and you started off with the concept you

[150:06]broke it down you put it down further you took us on

[150:08]a journey that was absolutely amazing that was absolutely brilliant um the

[150:13]one thing i would say though with regards to you know being

[150:16]a full speaker is more of it's a summary role it's more

[150:19]of a rebuttaling role um i think that would be absolutely brilliant

[150:24]if maybe you had played around with the format slightly because that

[150:26]would have come in earlier in the debate that would have been

[150:31]phenomenal um and then and then in the end you have somebody

[150:33]to come in and summarize and and take rebuttals but all in

[150:38]all i think all the speakers performed absolutely well i you know

[150:41]uh kudos to you all uh it's a difficult thing we're all

[150:45]fasting we all got really dry throats but you all did amazing

[150:50]thank you so much it was it was a pleasure to to

[150:52]sit down and have this honor of you know being part of

[150:59]this thank you i now pass on to uh um first of

[151:07]all thank you so much kadeja for those really kind words you're

[151:10]very generous um and and thank you also to the organizers for

[151:14]including me today and inviting me to judge i was um a

[151:19]little bit uh hesitant to do so because i felt it was

[151:24]a huge responsibility but i am so glad that i did because

[151:26]i have learned so much and i have been so engaged and

[151:30]entertained by each and every single speaker today so thank you i've

[151:33]really enjoyed the opportunity um with regard to the team um that

[151:38]i am commenting on the opposing team um i would like to

[151:43]make a mention first of all as to how you did a

[151:45]as a cohesive team and i think that's a really good word

[151:49]you worked incredibly cohesively together your arguments all backed one another you

[151:53]built on them beautifully um it was a very simplified argument there

[151:59]was uh it was it wasn't difficult to understand or complex yet

[152:01]the way in which she delivered it was with such uh beauty

[152:07]that it was really um something quite amazing um i loved how

[152:10]you supported one another in the uh free-for-all section as well and

[152:13]and how you rebutted uh the arguments that you were being faced

[152:18]with looking at each of the participants individually i'd like to first

[152:21]of all um address the um the first speaker um uh we

[152:28]as a judging panel um we all commented exactly on how exceptional

[152:32]your road map was we could completely see where you were going

[152:36]your definitions were spot-on they were clear concise um your content and

[152:42]your strategy was really um it was bang on there was nothing

[152:46]we could really do to uh to to ask you to improve

[152:50]that at all um one one point in which we we would

[152:53]have asked or we would have thought that we we could have

[152:56]seen some um development for you was um in relation specifically to

[153:02]montozier's points if we could have had a bit more of a

[153:05]rebuttal there um in that opening section to hammer down the points

[153:08]that you were making we would have loved to have seen that

[153:12]but as i say roadmap was brilliant exceptional definitions clear concise content

[153:17]thank you very much moving on to um participant speaker number two

[153:25]firstly um again um we were all um taken away by how

[153:28]you came in steaming through with lots of energy um you rebutted

[153:33]from the very outset um which was um you know really putting

[153:39]the other team on the back foot um i liked your content

[153:41]i liked how as i said when you rebutted festival with the

[153:45]supremacy argument um and you talked about the prophet and the the

[153:49]workings of the prophet and how um how he how he changed

[153:53]something but not everything um one thing which i um and the

[153:58]other judges also felt was the ending was slightly abrupt um we

[154:02]would have liked to have seen a slightly more gentle closure of

[154:06]your argument maybe a summary of what you had to say um

[154:07]just reinforcing the point that you were making which was obviously the

[154:13]opposition of the motion so that might be just something to think

[154:16]about for future but um otherwise exceptional um um i know you

[154:24]can't see fuzzy buzz on the screen uh for the audience um

[154:28]but first of all is here uh he's just had to turn

[154:31]his video off so he has had it thank you so good

[154:35]thank you i'm glad to hear that um as for leila speaker

[154:41]number three um all of the judges agreed we all said this

[154:45]from the start your central argument was was brilliant leila we we

[154:48]could clearly understand where you were coming from you were um you

[154:51]you were just very clear on what it was you were what

[154:55]you were arguing in your rebuttal again to the supremacist argument was

[154:59]very um was dealt with very early on very swiftly dealt with

[155:04]so we really liked that so your content was was spot on

[155:08]we would love to see you engaging in more of these debates

[155:11]we would love to see more of that confidence coming out in

[155:16]you um so please um again your content was brilliant and and

[155:19]i would love to see more of you engaging in these um

[155:22]in these in these subjects i loved how you talked about the

[155:25]migration of the prophet in particular actually and and how that was

[155:29]for travel for the spreading of knowledge um so yes excellent content

[155:33]really well researched get involved more and we'd love to see more

[155:37]of you talking and confidence and your confidence developing even further here

[155:42]and the final speaker in the opposing team um of course was

[155:48]river um again the judges were all in agreement it's really funny

[155:53]we did not uh liaise at all during the the debate at

[155:56]all but when we came together with our um feedback we were

[156:01]all on the same page and with rather we all said your

[156:05]your oratory was exceptional we were um blown away by the way

[156:08]in which you picked together all of the the the subjects that

[156:12]your your team had had mentioned that you brought it to a

[156:14]beautiful closure summarizing your composure of the um of the debate um

[156:21]and and when you saw that the the the time was coming

[156:25]to a close we loved how you you just brought it to

[156:28]a close in a very swift um very final very um finesse

[156:33]the finesse was exceptional so the content was great and the delivery

[156:36]was great the um the strategy was great all over there there

[156:40]wasn't actually anything i could think of that i could ask you

[156:42]to improve so very well done very well done as a team

[156:45]effort as well thank you very much i think i'm handing it

[156:49]over now to shabaronko who is going to talk about the scores

[156:53]for the uh the session in the free-for-all session thank you i

[157:06]commend the organizers you've done an absolutely brilliant project to begin with

[157:16]for the first time in wessex and may allah further projects and

[157:27]encourage our youth and and teenagers in particular which will insha allah

[157:34]give this community a amazing improvement in critical thinking skills acquire their

[157:43]poise in speech and public speaking uh skills retention of information that

[157:50]they have learned self-confidence insha'allah and enhanced teamwork skills and collaboration so

[157:57]there is this this particular project has really um delighted me uh

[158:04]as as and i'm proud that we are back on the vision

[158:07]developing our vision of almighty inshallah center is really has been on

[158:12]the map and it will go up further in the western map

[158:16]as well now inshallah um now the results without much to do

[158:21]um i will announce the winning team to be the opposition at

[158:33]278 points scored by sister sabiha brother fraser abbas leila and brother

[158:42]river 278 points all together but i must um stress that this

[158:50]competition was so close so close it was amazing we were literally

[158:56]one or two points away and and that is the case here

[158:59]the proposing team um earned 275 points so you were just three

[159:06]points below the winning team salute um thank you before i uh

[159:25]start my next segment i just want to draw everybody's attention back

[159:28]to the disclaimer which we put in throughout the program that we

[159:33]heard some very strong viewpoints and that these were uh some of

[159:39]them were purely uh for the purpose of the debate so they

[159:46]don't necessarily um reflect the viewpoints of the individuals whether they're on

[159:50]the proposing team or the opposing team we wanted to bring in

[159:55]that critical thinking and thinking you know outside the box and considering

[159:59]different viewpoints so we do want to just stress again that the

[160:04]viewpoints today uh that have been shared may not be the viewpoints

[160:08]of the people presenting them they are for the sake of the

[160:16]debate thank you kadeja thank you so much for that uh um

[160:19]thank you so so much for your verdict um i love the

[160:25]thorough feedback that was given to the participants the teams and i

[160:27]think it's a huge um a learning curve in china the next

[160:30]time we can carry this on for the next debate um just

[160:34]very quickly rhythm i thank you called asia i'd just like to

[160:38]uh to thank you the organizers for putting this on it's been

[160:42]it's been so much fun it's my first ever debate and um

[160:47]i'm sure i speak on both of everyone but uh we've really

[160:48]enjoyed it it's been a great experience and we look forward to

[160:53]many more of these to come um i'd like to thank my

[160:54]honorable opponents for putting up such a strong challenge um it wasn't

[160:59]easy that uh argue for the motion was incredibly difficult but you

[161:04]did an amazing job your arguments were very deep and complex um

[161:07]and for that um you know i recommend you for for doing

[161:11]that um you know we had to just uh just make do

[161:14]with our simple and surprise level arguments which thankfully got us across

[161:19]the line um and of course thank you to the the judges

[161:21]as well again excellent feedback very thorough amazing and uh long may

[161:25]that continue so we can get more people involved the more youngsters

[161:29]involved in taking part in these debates which are great for um

[161:32]you know for practicing the skills of public speaking and research and

[161:36]uh debating in a very um uh very open and islamic manner

[161:41]so thank you all thank you judges thank you organizers and yeah

[161:45]and thank you my opponents and my teammates of course were of

[161:50]course for for doing all the research and putting all those stats

[161:52]together thank you very much for that as well um you all

[161:55]did amazing thank you so much rydobar very kind words um i'm

[162:02]sure we all share the same sentiment um so um firstly a

[162:09]huge congratulations to the winning team um and all the participants i'm

[162:14]not surprised and i don't think that could aja is surprised that

[162:18]it was such a close call um you know as i said

[162:22]the the level of the arguments and the strategy the content the

[162:28]style coming from all of you was brilliant and i'm not surprised

[162:30]that it was such a close call and now on the screen

[162:36]you'll see the um the results from the audience poll so it

[162:40]has actually changed slightly um um proposing team you've won almost another

[162:47]30 of people and that's based on your arguments so i think

[162:54]you know starting from almost zero you've done a phenomenal job of

[162:58]presenting your argument um uh as did the the opposing team but

[163:06]obviously you started um you know a lot better off um now

[163:11]you also the audience you voted for the best speakers so i

[163:19]would like to um invite sheik fazlerbas to say a few words

[163:24]and to share the results of the best speaker please of you

[163:37]well when this project was uh launched with uh the organizing team

[163:42]fodeja sanji rabbi and brother muhammad hassan there was a question which

[163:46]was being posed to me and that is what does the madrasa

[163:50]have to do with the debate and this is an a question

[163:54]which perhaps people might be thinking what does the mothers have to

[163:57]do with the debase my simple answer to that is that madrasah

[163:59]has everything to do with the debate because madras should be a

[164:04]very safe place where we would like to encourage our children to

[164:07]be able to take part in critical understanding discussions and it provides

[164:13]an environment for them to be able to flourish and nourish the

[164:18]riemann as such to be able to continue this environment as such

[164:24]this is one of the points that this time we are having

[164:27]the adults of the community to take part so they as parents

[164:32]will be able to get the feel or the taste of this

[164:37]appetizer and we can already see in this participation of the parents

[164:40]today they have felt the appetizer of the having this space space

[164:45]in the madrasah and inshallah through them through these families being a

[164:48]very small jamaat you will be the ones who will be able

[164:52]to encourage to coach to mentor now the young people in our

[164:55]community the madrasa start that this project of the debate becomes insha'allah

[165:00]a thriving program for not only the jamaat as such but one

[165:04]where the platform of the mothers and the children will be encouraged

[165:07]to take part into it in sha'aqah so before i would mention

[165:14]regarding the results of the best speaker for the poll which was

[165:18]carried out by the audience i would like to take this opportunity

[165:22]to be able to first express the deepest appreciation to the participants

[165:29]from both the proposing and the opposing team you have masha allah

[165:36]done a very brilliant thought-provoking presentation and i was impressed that not

[165:41]only was your presentation based on the aspect of our sacred text

[165:44]of islam in hadees but also you dwell into various thoughts and

[165:49]philosophical and academic scholarship taking place as such so this itself is

[165:54]something which we would constantly like to encourage into being able to

[166:01]be one who utilizes alcohol because alkali is the one which is

[166:05]the basis you'll find the hadith of the first thing which is

[166:09]the first thing which he created was that intellect for men to

[166:12]be able to take forward over there and this can be seen

[166:14]that alhamdulillah as muslims in this part of the world you have

[166:21]been able to sort of build a bridge between the traditions of

[166:24]islam and the research of the academy scholarship and being able to

[166:30]at the same time emphasize a very important part of our identity

[166:34]and that is islam and such so to one and all of

[166:39]you masha allah i must say what sajidabai said is that we

[166:42]have been blown away rather i would say we have not been

[166:44]blown away rather you have really hammered our heads all right and

[166:50]the audience and we're going to suffer from this headache for a

[166:54]very long time to continue questioning ourselves and have this conversation with

[166:58]the families in sha allah thank you very much for all the

[167:01]time which you put into being able to prepare these presentations for

[167:04]all sides and such and to the esteemed judges i truly do

[167:09]not envy the situation in which these organizers have opportunity this situation

[167:14]but i must say that you have done your best in coming

[167:19]to a very fair and just conclusion when you disclose to us

[167:24]the points for the both the teams and from what i remember

[167:28]they were so close something like three or five points as such

[167:31]i am satisfied that you did mashallah carry out a very fair

[167:35]and just discharge of the role which was given to you thank

[167:40]you very much for being able to take up this challenge in

[167:44]being on this sport of being the judges for the for the

[167:46]debate as such and at the same time i must say that

[167:50]the feedback which each and every one of you gave was really

[167:54]a well balanced feedback and one which was addressing it to every

[168:00]individual which they will definitely appreciate and i could see from the

[168:05]response of the gestures the facial gestures that you truly acknowledged the

[168:11]feedback which had given to them so to all the participants end

[168:15]to the speech to the judges may allah grant you increase of

[168:20]record and grant you success for being able to be the flag

[168:26]bearers or the trailblazers for this first ever project of al-mahdi madrasa

[168:32]with regard to the debate now if i can contribute a few

[168:41]points with regards to the motion which was that this house believes

[168:48]there can be no western muslim identity all this time i was

[168:51]trying to look at one key word in this motion over here

[168:53]and what comes to me outstanding in that motion is identity and

[168:59]in today's ever globalized world identity has taken a whole new meaning

[169:07]for we see that more and more people especially we muslims from

[169:12]the second generation who are resident in the uk over here are

[169:16]really grappling with this concept of personal identity and we find that

[169:22]the people of the second generation immigrants are actually struggling with identity

[169:27]as part of them being able to reconcile it with the identity

[169:32]of the family identity of the community and at the same time

[169:36]the identity of themselves as muslims and being able to identify with

[169:43]being british citizens over here so as a result what happens many

[169:48]a time we have a confused or a disconnect muslim from the

[169:51]community or a confused and discontent connected muslim from the family as

[170:00]such so here i would like to perhaps shed more light over

[170:04]here that when saudi dubai or one of the speakers was talking

[170:06]about that the identity at times comes about living in a muslim

[170:11]in the western world the identity comes out people calling themselves as

[170:15]british muslims or french muslims or any american muslims as such and

[170:19]then a proposal was brought about that it would be better if

[170:22]you were to identify say ourselves as for example i'm a muslim

[170:28]british or i'm a muslim american as such and i feel that

[170:31]feels that fits him very well over there what is the reason

[170:35]for that the reason for that i see is that when allah

[170:37]is announcing to the angels as to what is the reason for

[170:45]creation of the human being and he says that indeed i am

[170:52]going to place on this earth so the earth when allah is

[170:56]mentioning the earth here is not with regard to the geographical position

[170:59]with your specific position rather it is going to the whole of

[171:05]the earth so this is giving a very clear message to us

[171:07]that islam is not restricted to a specific part of the earth

[171:13]rather in this ever globalized world in which we are living today

[171:19]or here islam is one which is going to put a mark

[171:21]on all parts of the world what it calls upon us is

[171:25]to be able to see that at every moment let our identity

[171:30]be able to reflect that identity of being a khalifa of allah

[171:34]subhanahu wa on this earth so when i say that i am

[171:38]a british muslim i am proud to say that i am sorry

[171:42]when i say that i am a muslim braid i will be

[171:44]proud to say that i am first a khalifa of allah subhana

[171:50]wa however by being by me being a muslim i'm a khalifa

[171:54]of allah subhana wa i am now identifying in the geographical area

[171:58]which are living over there four islam is enhancing the good in

[172:04]all the areas which are over there this is what i see

[172:07]islam to be that islam is fluid which can feel in any

[172:11]container as such so if the controller is on the western side

[172:15]the geographical location i as the khalif will identify myself as a

[172:20]muslim brit if a container is on the geographical side let's say

[172:25]on the eastern side in china then the muslim over there would

[172:29]identify in saying that i am a muslim chinese over there so

[172:38]insha allah let us all reflect that in this in this safe

[172:42]space over here constantly reflect that ayah in the khalifa and to

[172:51]add some twist in being able to show that how a good

[172:56]muslim brit i am let me quote from shakespeare in romeo and

[173:03]juliet where he says what's in a name that which we call

[173:07]arose by any other name would smell as sweet so likewise what's

[173:12]in an identity that which we call a muslim by any other

[173:20]name will still remain a khalifa of allah so i have the

[173:25]honor now it is the time to be able to announce the

[173:29]poll the results of the poll and the best speaker of the

[173:35]proposing team is brother muntasir jaffar and i am delighted to congratulate

[173:41]you masha allah well done keep it up the audience have really

[173:44]told you to be the best speaker for the proposing team and

[173:50]with regards to the best speaker of the opposing team is delight

[173:55]i'm delighted to announce that it is being voted as the best

[174:01]speaker of the oppo of the opposing team so to one and

[174:07]all of you i must say that it has been a really

[174:11]wonderful and a pleasant afternoon and uh insha allah not only with

[174:17]the headache of the psalm itself but the headache which you have

[174:20]given to us will continue in being able to reflect further on

[174:24]this thing and insha allah we look forward for the next round

[174:28]taking place may allah grant you all increase of cut and increasing

[174:35]your knowledge with a lot of barakah insha allah thank you to

[174:38]one and all of you congratulations um very well deserved although i

[174:47]saw the results and they were very very close um at last

[174:51]there has to only be two uh best speakers from one from

[174:55]each team there will be something small arriving at your door in

[174:58]the next couple of days as a congratulations so please keep i'll

[175:03]keep out an eye for that keep an eye out for that

[175:05]um just before we wrap up i'm very conscious of time five

[175:10]o'clock today so that's in three minutes we have a mother star

[175:13]quiz so i you know zoom fatigue going on today you log

[175:16]out of this one please join in with the quiz and support

[175:20]our mothers are students there um and a very quick word about

[175:23]the the zeal project that has been launched by the quran department

[175:25]um essentially it's a very simple uh project all you need to

[175:29]do as parents is read the quran with your children uh documented

[175:33]over a period of a month submit that form to us um

[175:37]and the email has been sent out with further details um the

[175:39]students progress will be celebrated when they get to one third two

[175:44]thirds and the final safara of the quran so let us all

[175:48]support our children um in their quran recitation and get them to

[175:54]involve um on the tensile project um the final word um participants

[175:59]and judges uh we will be going off and we won't be

[176:02]live but feel free to stay on the chat we can have

[176:05]a quick informal uh uh conversation thank you jazakallah and good office

[176:10]everyone

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