Shi'a Imammah vs Sunni Imammah || Br. Hassan al-Qadri

33 Bekeken· 23/04/14

The Purified Truth الحق المبين
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In the name of Allah,

watch and tell us which Imam you would rather follow.

#speakerscorner #Caliphate #SunnivsShia

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[0:00][Music] [Music] muhammad foreign is crucial one for not just muslims not

[4:16]just shias not just sunnis not just um people of the book

[4:21]but you also see that non-muslims will tell you leadership is something

[4:26]important within islamic history imam has been a very in-depth discussion it's

[4:35]been a discussion that's been going on for 1 400 years so

[4:40]many books have been written about it so many of the scholars

[4:46]from the all different sects have spoken about the issue of imam

[4:48]for because of imam many sects appeared many factions appeared many different

[4:56]beliefs appeared and this is all because of imam one of the

[5:03]first things that the first generation the early generation of muslims discussed

[5:12]was imam to the extent um a scholar he's a sunnis in

[5:20]his book he states that the most important matter after the prophet

[5:28]is choosing the imam and then he goes on to say that

[5:35]it's so important that it was more important than burying the prophet

[5:41]it's that important you see that imam was something that the early

[5:50]generation as soon as rasulullah died they started to discuss it who

[5:54]is the imam who should we choose us to be them how

[5:56]do we choose the imam was there a imam even did rasulullah

[6:00]choose someone who is better who has more knowledge this is all

[6:05]a discussion that occurred as soon as rasulullah passed away so what

[6:13]we see is a discussion starts to occur disagreements occur abu bakr

[6:25]ibn kohafa is chosen to be the khalifa jaid there's a disagreement

[6:28]between him and as now i want to go to a point

[6:33]not to discuss the disagreement that's not my discussion tonight we get

[6:37]to a zara she she gives a khutba a sermon by the

[6:42]name um the sermon of fedex what does she say and it's

[6:47]a crucial line here she says our imam is the safe guard

[6:55]of unity this unity sorry the safeguard of disunity when she gave

[7:04]this great grand sermon and the mosque of rasulullah she did it

[7:10]and she made this point about imam being the safeguard of this

[7:14]unity showing you imam is something important not just for the school

[7:21]of the sahaba but for the school of athletics and without a

[7:25]shadow of a doubt as much as anyone will tell you they

[7:28]disagree or that no this is not true imam is one of

[7:32]the foundations the pillars the principles of deen let it be sunny

[7:38]everyone will agree you have to believe in imam even more a

[7:49]discussion occurs about imam why because it was one of the discussions

[7:53]that caused so much bloodshed actually the biggest thing that caused bloodshed

[8:00]in the muslim ummah was imam a shahistan in his book 17

[8:06]so he's going through it's a book of creed of sex of

[8:11]different creeds so he goes to talk about the different sects [Music]

[8:22]and so on he says the fifth dispute is the greatest dispute

[8:32]among the nation is the dispute regarding imam and then he goes

[8:39]since there has been no he says there has been no sword

[8:43]and unchief in islam like it has for a religious foundation like

[8:53]imam has in every era in every era you see there was

[9:00]bloodshed they disagreed you have the ambassadors two caliphs the sons of

[9:05]the caliphs killed each other one became the caliph we see that

[9:09]now it's a very important discussion and i've realized throughout the years

[9:13]of being involved in polemics sunni shia panemix many people don't even

[9:19]understand it for example one of the questions you get you see

[9:23]it a lot in speaker's corner bring me an ayah a clear-cut

[9:26]ayah to prove imam in the quran it's like what have we

[9:32]forgotten about the hadith or do you not believe in the hadith

[9:34]and you know the funny thing is is if you bring them

[9:38]for example for example that verse that says obey allah the messenger

[9:45]and the authority from among you they'll say no where does it

[9:51]say albeit you're like okay see you so you reply back with

[9:54]okay let me ask you a question now so where in the

[9:58]quran does it say i have to believe in the four caliphs

[10:03]where where is in the quran because if we're going to play

[10:10]that game we can play it both ways no someone that is

[10:12]well structured in his foundations and understands how akaida is built how

[10:17]hadith is understood how quran is to be understood you didn't ask

[10:25]such a question now our my discussion today is to solve a

[10:34]specific problem we see that like i was saying it's a discussion

[10:38]many think they've understood it but when it comes to obama and

[10:43]the difference of opinion when it comes to imam between especially the

[10:46]sunnis and shia as you see that for example you have to

[10:50]start to understand hadith the different sciences of hadith the chain of

[10:57]narrators is it sahih is it is it weak is it morsel

[11:02]the quranic verse is it mahakam is it not how did it

[11:04]come down why did it come down do we agree it came

[11:08]down and there's so much discussion that sometimes the layman doesn't understand

[11:10]it so i thought to use a specific methodology that i learned

[11:15]from my teachers is just to simplify this discussion today i don't

[11:22]want to degrade the position of the sunnis nor do i want

[11:25]to make the position of the shia sound like this amazing concept

[11:29]and understanding that they have on imam that's not my job my

[11:33]job is to show the conclusions of the sunni sect regarding akida

[11:39]or imam and the shia conclusion regarding imam and i will leave

[11:46]it to the audience to decide which one do you do they

[11:49]think or do you think is more beneficial for you to follow

[11:55]what type of imam would you rather follow and if you would

[11:59]rather follow the sun you want them good for you and if

[12:01]you'd rather follow the shia away good for you so my job

[12:06]isn't to degrade or make the concept of sunni imam look back

[12:12]so our discussion literally boils down to al-imam versus so it's the

[12:23]divine imam the understanding versus the sunni the great imam so we

[12:31]go to point one we're going to discuss it in three different

[12:35]angles inshaallah we see that the shia imamiyah they state that the

[12:43]imam must be masoon must be has to be infallible we believe

[12:56]that an imam just like a prophet must be infallible from all

[13:02]vices and defects whether open or concealed from childhood up to death

[13:11]deliberately or unintentionally another one is one of our classical scholars he

[13:22]says in his book of akkad he says i will believe concerning

[13:26]the prophets messengers and imams and angels is that they are infallible

[13:32]purified from all defects and they do not commit any sin whether

[13:35]it be minor or major jaid a while is the student of

[13:46]he says verily the imams that have taken the position of the

[13:51]prophets in executing the laws and capital punishments and protecting the sharia

[13:54]and disciplining the people are infallible like the prophets it's clear right

[14:01]the shia position regarding imam is that the imam must be infallible

[14:06]let's go to the sunni if you refer back to ateftasani that

[14:12]we mentioned earlier in his book uh he says and it is

[14:19]not a requirement for the imam that he is infallible so for

[14:24]the sun is not a requirement and then he can and then

[14:28]we go to another one he has a bit more explanation the

[14:34]famous scholar in his tafsir volume 1 page 270.

[14:40]he says there is no difference of an opinion among the muslim

[14:47]nation that it is impermissible for a faster open sinner a evil

[14:51]doer to become a caliph so you have to be adil just

[14:59]in the sunni school of thought is that you have to be

[15:03]just you have to be someone that's upright yes you might commit

[15:07]small sins here and there but you don't need to be infallible

[15:11]now the question arises here my brothers and the sisters that will

[15:16]be watching insha allah i ask i'm not here to degrade any

[15:20]position or make any position look better which one would you rather

[15:26]choose the shitty position would rather follow a imam infallible doesn't commit

[15:30]no sin or would you rather follow a man that is just

[15:36]upright a good person doesn't commit many sins but he does do

[15:39]mistakes because he's not infallible for example now i don't want to

[15:45]divert from the discussion for example when you hear someone from the

[15:47]school of the sahaba they come and tell you that yes abu

[15:53]bakr fits in this condition of being upright we sure i disagree

[15:59]right we say i'm not even gonna go and try to degrade

[16:04]the position i'm saying okay no problem your caliphs that you believe

[16:10]in are upright and just for argument's sake but which one would

[16:16]you choose the concept of imam here or the sunni one that's

[16:21]up to you up to you to decide we'll go to the

[16:27]second angle the shia in believe that it is obligatory to believe

[16:32]that the imam is only chosen divinely by allah subhanahu wa ta'ala

[16:38]only allah no one else can choose him not the people not

[16:47]mom and dad no allah is the one that chooses again i'm

[16:54]using this book not necessarily that i agree with everything in it

[16:59]but it is the book that is usually accepted in our house

[17:02]our islamic seminars he says we the imamiya shia state that imam

[17:10]cannot be decided without commission from allah the almighty conveyed to us

[17:16]by rasulullah or by the previous imam who's also divinely chosen right

[17:22]imam is not to be lowered for selection or be the choice

[17:27]of the people clear cut position our position is that the imam

[17:35]cannot be chosen by own he can only be chosen by allah

[17:39]no one else let's go to the sunni position he states in

[17:50]his book page 21-22 he was a scholar from the fifth century

[17:59]he was from basra he gives seven different um conditions um no

[18:06]he he he gives sorry two main conditions of choosing a caliph

[18:14]imam he says one by the selection of the people so the

[18:18]act so the decision makers the people of expertise for example abu

[18:27]bakr abner the first historical caliph was chosen by what the sunnis

[18:31]say uh um the companions and that they were experts they were

[18:36]jurors and they said that abu bakr is sufficient for this position

[18:43]of imam the second one selection by the previous caliph okay even

[18:49]if they mean a scholar in his book one of them was

[19:03]that's difficult he says if if a man rebels and sees his

[19:08]power the people must obey him so this is another way now

[19:12]so you got someone that's in power come someone comes seizes that

[19:20]position he rebels takes the position the people must obey him even

[19:24]if he sees his power by force without their consent because he

[19:29]has seized the power the reason for that is is that it

[19:35]if his rule is con tested it will lead to a great

[19:39]deal of evil why did you hear many of the selfies say

[19:43]to you no you shouldn't talk against the leaders you shouldn't rebel

[19:47]against the leaders because they say to you and there'll be a

[19:51]greater evil they'll start to kill you of course our shia are

[19:56]completely different we have the stand up never will we accept oppression

[20:03]never will we live in dishonor he continues he says and this

[20:07]is what happened during the umayyads period period when some of them

[20:11]seized power by means of force and gained the title of the

[20:18]caliphate and people obeyed them in obedience to the command of allah

[20:21]now of course they have their fear on how you should un

[20:25]um obey the leader where you shouldn't and so on so we're

[20:30]fair with our discussion to conclude on the second angle i ask

[20:34]you would you rather follow a imam chosen by allah [Music] the

[21:02]people all by the people of expertise so the much the hiding

[21:09]the people that are experts in this matter to the decision makers

[21:14]all someone that rebelled and took over the caliphate so you have

[21:20]the sunni position you have three conditions some of them will add

[21:26]that maybe rasulullah chose abu bakr but again this is not the

[21:30]majority opinion so i ask would you rather imam chosen by allah

[21:38]subhanahu wa would you rather follow imam that was chosen by the

[21:46]previous imam who could have been a faucet also he rebelled and

[21:48]you know what he chose his son right he by this standard

[21:56]yo it's okay yazid but it's okay because the previous imam chosen

[22:10]or they have another one the people choose him like in the

[22:18]time of abu bakr abu babians and by the way not all

[22:23]the companions and we'll discuss that tomorrow insha'allah in our lecture some

[22:28]of the companions chose and saw that abu bakr is fit to

[22:33]be the caliph or the second one is through rebelling decision is

[22:39]yours the third angle the shia imamiya believe that the imam has

[22:47]to have divine must have divine knowledge that he is given knowledge

[22:56]so he doesn't make mistakes with akam it doesn't take him 10

[23:00]years to learn surat al-baqarah these type of things you need imam

[23:06]that has complete knowledge of the quran and sunnah if you refer

[23:11]back to academia again when a new question arises he must have

[23:19]the knowledge of it through inspiration what is inspiration inspiration is a

[23:29]type of revelation there's different types of revelation you have the prophets

[23:35]that received even the prophets that receive different types you have the

[23:39]messengers prophets and the muhammad they receive different types of revelation here

[23:44]we see and it's correct what um in many cases when you

[23:50]go back to the shia hadid corpus a man would come to

[23:55]one of the imams our imam my question is so and so

[24:01]the imam would would reply give me a second and then he

[24:07]would answer it's as if someone is speaking to him telling him

[24:09]an answer so the angels would come to him which he received

[24:14]by the way of power that allah has placed in him when

[24:21]he gives attention to something and wills to know it he knows

[24:25]it so if he needs to know something allah will give him

[24:34]that knowledge when he he will neither miss nor fail to hit

[24:38]it without reason-based proofs or instructions of mentors because we also believe

[24:44]that the realm moving before rasulullah died he went and when he

[25:02]came out the companions asked him what was you doing rasulullah he

[25:07]said he opened a thousand doors of knowledge and from each door

[25:09]there is a thousand doors so he passed on and you can

[25:15]find it in al qaeda in one of the chapters again we

[25:19]go to imam each prophet hadawa to whom he gave instructions by

[25:26]the command of allah and concerning them we believe that they brought

[25:32]the truth from allah that their word is the word of allah

[25:38]they receive inspiration their worth is the word of allah and their

[25:46]command is the command of allah and their obedience to them is

[25:52]the obedience to allah and that disobedience to them is disobedience to

[25:56]allah they spoke not except on behalf of allah [Music] so now

[26:06]it's clear to share our position now the imam he must have

[26:16]divine knowledge he must give you a ruling based upon divine knowledge

[26:24]what is this uh sunni position again in his tafsir he says

[26:30]he must be of those who are qualified to be a judge

[26:34]from from among the judges of the muslims a jurist that does

[26:40]not need anyone so it doesn't need any other jurist to give

[26:45]a ruling when incidents occur and this is agreed upon so he's

[26:52]saying again i'm not here to degrade the position he's just saying

[26:55]that he needs to be a much dead so by sunnis they

[27:13]can derive and deduct their own rulings from the quran and sunnah

[27:18]they may disagree between them by the way and that happened but

[27:23]this is what they believe again he gives seven conditions of becoming

[27:32]a caliph the second one he must have knowledge that contributes to

[27:36]his independent deduction of law and rulings and law jade so one

[27:43]of the conditions of becoming imam is that you need to be

[27:45]a jurist a fakie jade he made you mistakes though because no

[27:52]one's saying he has divine knowledge where he never gets a ruling

[27:56]wrong he may do a mistake he may derive a ruling that

[28:04]may be wrong so you see in many cases that even abbas

[28:06]for example will correct the caliph imam ali in another case would

[28:13]correct him this happens and then they'll admit to you they're like

[28:18]this is what happens that's fine we have no problem with that

[28:24]so now you need to decide between two would you rather go

[28:29]with the imam that has divine knowledge or the imam that is

[28:36]a fakie a jurist a much the head but he may get

[28:40]rulings wrong i'm not saying this in a way to degrade now

[28:43]they'll tell you yeah either he's a fakie but you may get

[28:47]it wrong which one would you rather follow the sheer understanding of

[28:55]the imam or the sunni understanding of the imam i use this

[28:59]way because i saw some of my teachers when arguing with some

[29:04]christians they'll tell the christian would you rather follow who is a

[29:10]sinner a drunkard like it's found in the bible or would you

[29:14]rather follow an infallible prophet nor that doesn't commit sin so i

[29:19]thought why not simplify it when we're discussing polemics that it's important

[29:24]like that for to open doors so the person that's not studied

[29:29]hadith quran and so on he can do what he'd like okay

[29:33]this actually makes sense let me maybe look into the understanding of

[29:42]imam but again the conclusion is for you you decide what you

[29:45]think is better but in history there is a man there is

[29:53]a man that understood the position of imam there is a man

[30:08]in history that showed complete loyalty to the imam of his time

[30:13]a man that truly had maharife he truly understood the imam of

[30:21]his time the position the status the rank of the imam of

[30:25]his time it's none other than abbas sayidiwa lai

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