Sacred Space: Conversations with Najah Bazzy on Faith, Hope & Healing

1 المشاهدات· 20/04/25

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[0:02][Music] so now I did it go good morning good morning we

[0:10]are so happy to have hygena shahbazi with us today and for

[0:16]you guys that don't know me my name is Aida Vasia and

[0:18]this is a podcast series that were coining sacred space and we've

[0:29]have the absolute pleasure to talk to a leader and mentor in

[0:34]our community who also has inspired many many people across the country

[0:38]in the world actually Hodja Hodja and I have a very deep

[0:46]history goes back maybe 20 plus years now over decades and so

[0:49]I thought our nog ural program would be to have a conversation

[0:53]with her because we felt as a team that she embodied what

[0:59]it means to be someone that is deeply faithful and cherishes every

[1:05]single space in a way that makes it sacred don't make me

[1:11]cry already okay it just a little bit of a preamble about

[1:14]what this podcast is we are a group of young adults Muslims

[1:24]living here in the West and we would love to have a

[1:27]conversation about what it means to bring the sacred back into our

[1:33]lives and to make it something that is present with us every

[1:36]day day in and day out and our jobs and our family

[1:40]lives and bring that conversation to the forefront then they think many

[1:44]of us find it very hard because we dichotomize our lives to

[1:50]a space where faith lies and another space where everything else lies

[1:55]and we've believed that our group of people there's a little bit

[1:59]of vulnerability because we don't want to express God in these spaces

[2:02]anymore but we're at a point where we want to celebrate that

[2:07]celebrate God and celebrate it openly and discuss ways and how to

[2:13]be that faithful person every day in every minute of our lives

[2:18]and in every space in our lives so we know that you

[2:20]have done that successfully we've watched you for decades now and you

[2:27]know we hope that you can inspire us in this moment here

[2:29]today as you've inspired the many other people around you in your

[2:32]life maybe we can tell the listeners a little bit about some

[2:37]of your secrets and so that's why we've brought you in today

[2:39]okay but you can see I'm visibly crying because it's coming full

[2:49]circle yes yes I want to just tell a story before we

[2:52]start okay am I gonna cry through this okay because I think

[2:57]I'll just use in my coffee napkin to do that God didn't

[2:59]give me eyelashes so I have to use a little bit mascara

[3:05]so we sew over ten years ago in 2007 December sixth I

[3:09]decided to embark on a journey to go to the hedge and

[3:15]you gave me a journal and you said write in it and

[3:18]express your love of this place and just as I journals and

[3:26]yesterday night I have this extensive library in my house and I

[3:31]went to my library and I looked at the books I needed

[3:36]to write down something and I have a lot of things to

[3:39]write down you know a lot of different type of books I

[3:41]could I could could have chosen and I chose this journal I

[3:46]pulled it out I'm like oh my god there's something about this

[3:50]something like was it was very touching to me and then I

[3:55]opened it but what I opened it to was a phrase that

[3:57]I have been thinking about for the past couple of weeks and

[4:01]it's a phrase that you mentioned recently on national TV I literally

[4:05]opened this book and the first phrase that popped up was written

[4:09]and read among all these entries that were written in black and

[4:17]it was a hadith room Ahmadi and I'm gonna repeat it I'm

[4:20]gonna say too and I want to get your thoughts on this

[4:23]but it's very interesting that this came up because this is the

[4:26]same Heidi that you used certainly as you accepted our ward nationally

[4:30]mm-hmm you incorporate it into your acceptance speech it says this is

[4:37]a highly urban a batalov they'll think that you are a small

[4:44]body a microcosm yet the greater world the universe is hidden within

[4:50]you and I thought to myself this is what has she said

[4:54]the other day I can't and then the story doesn't end there

[4:57]okay because I realized it was the same Journal that you had

[5:04]gifted to me over ten years ago before I went to the

[5:10]hatch and that's the journal that I wrote it and I just

[5:12]thought it was really profound that that happened but I also wanted

[5:17]to share something else because you wrote a little letter to me

[5:20]at the beginning of this journal and I think it's it's a

[5:24]very beautiful thing and I just wanted to share it to the

[5:26]viewers because if the listeners because this is the type of deliberate

[5:29]kind of deeply held beliefs that you impart on others and that

[5:36]you have taught us over the years and it's been with us

[5:39]ever since and it's inspired us this is inspired us that even

[5:44]projects like this you said as you do the Tawaf focus on

[5:47]the kaabah as your Center Islam as your core as you Circle

[5:54]it it too will envelop you then you said something taken humanity

[5:59]and the diversity our beloved Creator pay attention to the hands feet

[6:05]and eyes of the world you will learn stories without words and

[6:11]I just wanted to get some of your thoughts I know I

[6:14]just gave you a lot of information not really a question but

[6:17]those two things the universe within a human being and tell me

[6:24]a little bit about your experience is also on Hajj so it's

[6:27]kind of like a two-part question so this could be you know

[6:33]like a 4-hour potluck you and I you know that so first

[6:35]of all Thank You Eileen for having me dr.

[6:37]Holly I'm so proud of you and I don't know that any

[6:43]maybe we'll talk about history in a little while but so I'm

[6:48]I'm I'm one who believes that everything in the universe is connected

[6:52]I believe that this Great Creator is very purposeful everything that he

[7:05]has done so when I felt that I was sending you off

[7:07]to Hajj knowing the kind of person that you are and the

[7:12]way that you think we have a lot of shared visions and

[7:15]a lot of shared values you're an observer and I often in

[7:21]my head I can actually see you sitting in the back of

[7:24]an audience with the tilt of your head when someone is speaking

[7:31]and you're listening intently and I remember when I was speaking often

[7:35]at the Y me I would see you in the back listening

[7:41]intently so as an observer I think I felt that you share

[7:44]that idea that we're all connected in some way and that everything

[7:48]was responsible for everything so when I read this from Imam Holly

[7:52]it wasn't that it was a profound revelation to me it was

[7:58]that it was a confirmation of what I really felt in my

[8:00]heart that there is a universe and every one of us and

[8:07]you know we are atoms 80 OMS right and so when God

[8:15]says in the Holy Quran that even an ounce of good or

[8:18]an atom of good is counted like that tells me that God

[8:25]recognizes in Revelation the idea of an atom and that's where we

[8:29]are that's what we are so I do believe in that connectedness

[8:31]and Hajj I think that anyone who has experienced Hajj who has

[8:37]to experience a diversity of God and I'm sure when you were

[8:43]there that you learned so many things about people without words they

[8:47]were in the glances of the eyes they were in the stories

[8:52]of people's worn out feet or their worn-out hands or the privilege

[8:55]that they had like you could actually see those things so I

[8:59]think when I wrote that to you it's because I know that

[9:03]you are an observer and that you have this connectedness to humanity

[9:07]hmm you know what was striking in that comment that you made

[9:19]about the universe within you it is and I wanted just to

[9:23]get your reflections on this when a memory tells us looks to

[9:29]a human being that potentially is in despair or is having a

[9:33]difficult life and finds it potentially a task for them to put

[9:41]say put food on the table or to go to there you

[9:43]know you know long hours at work and potentially have family members

[9:49]that are ill and all those things that humanity has to face

[9:53]and endure the amount comes and tells you well look you human

[9:59]beings might be ill let's say spiritually and you know you you

[10:03]might encounter these things in life but if you look deep there's

[10:06]something in you that is the cure it's almost as if the

[10:13]Imam is telling us that there is an unrelenting hope right that

[10:17]exists in each human being and it kind of goes back to

[10:22]an objective that you have with one of your with your organization's

[10:25]I'm at hope for Humanity and I thought those two were so

[10:29]beautifully connected that despite the the things that human beings kind of

[10:34]endure that there is always that silver lining that if you can't

[10:39]see it and if you don't search for it you'll never overcome

[10:45]never overcome those things and I just what are your what are

[10:48]your thoughts on that that I hope that the Imam spoke of

[10:53]that God instilled in us and how does that inspired you I

[10:55]guess in the work that you do you know I to me

[11:00]there's no greater word in the world right and I'm serious about

[11:02]that because I speak about this a lot you know I do

[11:07]this all this end of life work and I think I was

[11:09]taught this lesson by the people who are leaving the world I

[11:14]really think that so what I understand and what I mean but

[11:21]my heart is that hope is intrinsic it's something that got planted

[11:25]in the human heart whether you believe in God or you don't

[11:28]believe in God he still allows this factor to exist intrinsically in

[11:33]our hearts when hope is played with or when darkness and despair

[11:42]replace light and hope then we have a human being that's going

[11:48]to plummet but resilience is completely tied to hope I am sure

[11:54]of it maybe I don't have the research or data to back

[11:56]it up but this is something that from a qualitative perspective I

[12:02]have seen I see it as a matter I see it at

[12:03]the bedside I see it all the time interestingly enough just yesterday

[12:11]I was here downtown meeting with the CEO of shinola mmm Shannon

[12:16]Washburn and she said I have to tell you my favorite word

[12:19]in the world is hope and that was just another affirmation that

[12:27]you don't have to be even religiously guided or Muslim like we

[12:33]don't own we don't own the Wall Street on hope God owns

[12:39]that but I think it's tied to something even deeper which is

[12:43]the foundation of our humanity which is the idea that we would

[12:50]believe in something bigger than ourselves and the humility that comes along

[12:52]with believing that there is a creator and a great designer and

[13:01]if that is in the equation then I feel like hope can

[13:05]exist but even if it's not in the equation I still see

[13:10]that hope is there for people and out of the worst circumstances

[13:14]out of war out of abuse out of illness out of anything

[13:22]anything in any challenge it's the most powerful word I think that

[13:26]we can speak after the after the name of God so being

[13:33]that you're a deeply faithful Muslim are there any you know instances

[13:40]or or let's say any practices in your daily life that helps

[13:45]kind of enliven that feeling there's anything in the faith culture or

[13:49]faith tradition yourself that you found has helped you kind of overcome

[13:55]those moments of Darkness that you can kind of share with the

[13:58]listeners because we've talked about certain supplications etc anything that you would

[14:04]like to share you know no one's ever asked me that question

[14:07]but I'm really happy that you're asking me that question because I

[14:10]do want to share that you know but again I've had a

[14:15]lot of moments of Darkness I've had a lot of despair in

[14:21]my life people may not see that because I bounced back but

[14:24]you know I've had those dark moments where you're on your pillow

[14:28]crying your eyes out right and in thinking that there's no one

[14:33]who will understand this situation had it when I was 16 had

[14:36]it when I was 21 had it actually when I was a

[14:41]child very very dark moments but I've learned that you know I

[14:44]I said this in a TEDx talk for whatever reason I've always

[14:49]been able to look up and I've always understood somehow even as

[14:53]a child I think my grandmother had a great influence on me

[14:57]that this idea of Hope is always there as I've grown older

[15:03]I've learned that there are key things I must do and it

[15:08]maintains kind of the spiritual equilibrium in me the first one was

[15:13]to actually go to Hajj so that I can experience the profoundness

[15:20]of whatever that required once a lifetime trip is but thank god

[15:24]I've got many many many more times than that so I think

[15:27]that is kind of the basis in many ways for the rest

[15:32]of it because that allowed me to see diversity that allowed me

[15:37]to see this world the different colors and shapes of our humanity

[15:40]and I relished in that and in every single Hajj I've gone

[15:43]to there has been very very profound experiences deeply profound deep deep

[15:50]deep things that have happened to catch after that my first one

[15:56]was when I was 36 I'm almost 60 now I learned to

[16:02]stay and will do so I'm always an Widow and the reason

[16:04]for that is because had she made me profoundly aware of my

[16:11]mortality so I am keenly aware that I'm speaking in this moment

[16:14]to you but in the next moment I may not speak hmm

[16:19]I'm keenly aware of that so for me life is every breath

[16:22]I've learned that and it's a discipline that I practice I learned

[16:27]it at the bedside watching so many people take their last breath

[16:33]hmm so for me broth is is life so I want to

[16:34]use it in every way that I can so I stay in

[16:38]with Duke because I'm aware that God can take me in any

[16:42]moment any second and I want to die and would do it's

[16:46]just something I want to do as you know I wash the

[16:47]dead so I have those kind of experiences washing hundreds of people

[16:51]and I know when you lose your voice and when someone has

[16:57]to do it for you that's something I live with so there's

[17:04]no um miss there's no like I don't sit around here and

[17:06]think oh you know I plan for the future but I'm keenly

[17:11]aware of my present they call that now living in the moment

[17:14]the other thing that I do is from Fatima to Sahara I'll

[17:19]answer them you know sometimes I think is Muslims who are the

[17:28]followers of a debate we encapsulate them as though they belong to

[17:31]us and us only and we don't realize the universality of their

[17:35]messages but when she teaches you to pray for the other first

[17:41]that's something that even right now as I'm speaking to I just

[17:44]got the chills because it takes you out of yourself so that's

[17:47]my morning prayer I pray I ask God to feed the hungry

[17:52]to take care of the orphan to send His angels around those

[17:55]orphans so that they don't feel the sense of loneliness and that

[18:01]he flanks them with his love and His mercy because they are

[18:04]lonely people there are vulnerable people and to cure those who are

[18:08]sick and to help them out and and I kind of go

[18:12]through this Universal kind of list and then I pray for the

[18:18]earth because she's going to take us and I don't want to

[18:20]forget that and then I give my salams to the prophet alayhi

[18:24]salatu salam in all the prophets before him and all the angels

[18:30]on earth and all the angels in heaven and then I give

[18:34]a special Salam to the Angel of Death because although I don't

[18:37]know this angel of death I know that I'm going to have

[18:39]to meet this angel of death and that I asked his Angelov

[18:44]got to be very careful with me and and as merciful as

[18:49]possible and then after I'm done with all that I moved to

[18:51]my family my parents my family my children my husband in every

[18:58]Samana terian and then I pray for all of you who like

[19:00]been a part of my life because the next generation of Muslims

[19:06]is critically important to me people think that the man is my

[19:10]entire life it is a part of my life but here to

[19:13]ask me Eileen you know this better than anybody else what are

[19:16]my most passionate about what is it your family youth and you

[19:19]leave leaving that next generation as empowered as possible I'm so passionate

[19:27]about that so that's kind of how I pray staying with you

[19:29]think about every breath that I take and then I ask God

[19:34]to make me and this happened in Hajj make me what he

[19:39]wants me to be not what I thought I want to be

[19:39]this is a critical point for all of us and I will

[19:44]end here but one one moment in Hajj I was on the

[19:50]copper wall underneath the golden gutter which I think there's some sort

[19:55]of magnetic spiritual magnetism I don't know what happens I left our

[19:58]body right in that spot and you know we keep asking for

[20:01]what we want what we need and then in a split second

[20:06]I don't know what happened I had a paradigm shift and I

[20:10]all of a sudden felt so embarrassed in front of God I

[20:14]felt so embarrassed I remember the moment so well and I began

[20:21]to just bawl my eyes out like some place on my soul

[20:23]that I had never cried from and I said I got it

[20:28]I'm so sorry because it's such a moment of arrogance when you

[20:32]think you know what's best for you and I said please make

[20:35]me what you want me to be not what I think I

[20:38]ought to be so when I go stand judgment in front of

[20:41]you I'm absolved put me where you want me to be I'll

[20:44]throw away my schedule and I did I threw in my schedule

[20:50]and now I love my life being wherever he wants me to

[20:56]be with no apologies none whatsoever so if I have a meeting

[21:01]and something else comes up like my mom needs me my family

[21:03]needs me I stop I cancel my meeting and I go take

[21:10]care of my priority and lastly the priority is God first in

[21:15]my life la ilaha la la my family no matter what it

[21:20]takes and then everything else and he's my schedule so it's a

[21:28]good transition it sounds like just to kind of recap it was

[21:32]a lot to digest and reflect on but you maintain hope by

[21:36]grounding yourself in the very basic tenets of what God has kind

[21:44]of prescribed to us you send her life around prayer and acts

[21:49]that are purifying to you in service of others in your family

[21:53]but I wanted to transition and and ask you about something that

[21:58]you and I have had multiple conversations on because this litany that

[22:04]appears in she a tradition is very compelling and potentially if one

[22:11]were to read it over and over again it becomes almost the

[22:14]playbook by which a Muslim should operate and if they were able

[22:21]to kind of master that you know they've kind of achieved that

[22:25]ultimate success and that is a called of a hubs affinity we

[22:30]know that a Bahamas that the Metis was a companion of I

[22:33]think he members a Mojave Dean and he many profound things in

[22:37]there but I just wanted to get your perspective on that because

[22:42]we do know that you know you you do your life's work

[22:45]is in service of others unlike many of us you know who

[22:50]feel that we are have potentially menial jobs and are in a

[22:54]rut in our in our lives and you know don't understand our

[22:56]focus and our in our you know the meaning behind it all

[23:01]but you somehow it seems as though you have kind of honed

[23:04]in on that and I and I I believe it has something

[23:09]to do with your love of the store so it gives me

[23:13]some thoughts on that I don't want to bring out a passage

[23:15]because I'm not really sure what you eat what inspires you but

[23:21]just your kind of thoughts and reflections on so yes I'm very

[23:26]inspired by it mmm say in the lobby Dean by the way

[23:32]is very important to me I must say that everyone when I

[23:35]made because I grew up sunni-shiite when I chose the love of

[23:41]I feel great and their teachings my whole life changed by the

[23:46]way because there was someone for every event and so like when

[23:49]my dad was dying I was just like so glue team am

[23:52]saying the hobby Dean because I thought no one can understand the

[23:55]death of a father better than he can so da Abu Hamza

[24:00]you know one of the things that she Aslam offers the universe

[24:05]not the world are these incredible doha that are so sublime that

[24:11]they take art like intellect our spiritual intelligence into a whole nother

[24:18]space and location two things one is in Doha Kumail you and

[24:27]I used to break down at the same time I noticed over

[24:30]over the idea that you know God would remove the love of

[24:36]this dunya from our hearts and I know that was something that

[24:39]resonated with you as well Muhammad said every time I get you

[24:46]know right in the beginning of the doha or were it said

[24:51]that you know God created us though he is needless of us

[24:58]I fall apart I fall apart it is so profound to me

[25:08]that we could be this special creation and that we have this

[25:13]free will and that were created with the spiritual intelligence that whole

[25:19]idea of how special we are and that that's the phrase that

[25:24]just nails it he created us that he is needless of us

[25:32]He loves us but yet he is needless of our love you

[25:35]know to have Abu Ali know who with an Iranian it's like

[25:41]oh my gosh these things move me very deeply the dough heart

[25:47]goes on you know to talk about Hajj several times and while

[25:53]the yard is very very important in our religious tradition I also

[25:58]sometimes think that we forget about how important the hodges and the

[26:02]life lessons that we will learn there and then the whole dot

[26:05]that talks about the vulnerability of our humaneness when we are on

[26:14]that on that washing table and and that we are really dependent

[26:17]at that point on other people to take us into the belly

[26:23]of this earth these things for me are deeply profound and I

[26:27]live with them I listen adorable hamza every single day mmm every

[26:31]time I'm in the car I just play it because what happened

[26:35]was one day at the Islamic Center of America during one of

[26:39]the yma but i'm lavon's that we had the the why may

[26:44]was having a session who it was one of the nights of

[26:49]qatar we stayed until thatcher time and there was a group of

[26:52]us there and a person from the sorority happened to be there

[26:58]reciting daughter of a hamza with had your house shah house I

[27:02]was kind of in a trance that night listening to the dog

[27:06]and I asked God to enter and to scribe on my heart

[27:12]the words of this Doha so became a part of me mmm

[27:14]I think that's another thing we don't do you read the Quran

[27:18]but we don't ask God to inscribe the spirit of the Quran

[27:20]right into our hearts I can't read Quran very well at all

[27:25]so I have to lean on the prayer that I have forgot

[27:30]to inscribe it into my heart and we know that's possible because

[27:32]the Prophet Allah such Asuna he was as we learned that you

[27:39]know he was not only that vehicle from which God spoke but

[27:42]he also looked at the Quran in its totality I think that's

[27:48]something we need to emulate you know part of the doha talks

[27:52]about how we look to God with all of our hopes and

[27:58]our desires and I'm paraphrasing and then we ask him just like

[28:02]you said earlier to bring at our hands and in the works

[28:11]that we do to be in complete service of him and almost

[28:15]kind of submit to that will not to super plan and not

[28:21]to all of our lives work so hard to reach a moment

[28:25]in which we've made it right that's what asks us to step

[28:34]back from our freewill almost and allow God to at our hands

[28:38]bring forth that goodness and I just wanted your thoughts on that

[28:41]because I think modern times and modern culture kind of pushes a

[28:47]human being man a woman and you know we've also indoctrinated this

[28:51]into our culture now here living in the West as as as

[28:56]Muslims to go full force and everything that you want in need

[28:58]obtain it and be successful at it right and attained that status

[29:06]that everyone's trying to attain but it seems as though that these

[29:09]litany is in this sauce specifically is telling us something different that

[29:14]is to pull back and to cleanse your hand with with that

[29:19]that will of God allow you to go forward and do that

[29:24]but the work what is your thoughts on that because I feel

[29:28]as though we are try hearts as human beings we are trying

[29:32]too hard to be something and lose focus lose that meaning right

[29:36]and become the solution by it potentially as many people are added

[29:41]some part of their lives and trying to attain that ultimate you

[29:48]know status and goal for your thoughts I think it's a hybrid

[29:52]so I think that the only independent source in the universe is

[30:01]God I think that our free will is what allows us to

[30:10]attain nearness and closeness to God so without free will then there'd

[30:17]be no game mmm there'd be no evolution of our spirituality so

[30:24]we always have a choice to choose God or not to choose

[30:29]god in any single moment in in any certain circumstance so I

[30:32]think it's a hybrid I think that we are interdependent not independent

[30:38]and when we are in interdependence our free will and our acknowledgement

[30:45]of God's will are both in play it's kind of like in

[30:52]my mind it's kind of like a symphony you know one is

[30:55]not independent of the other but we still have this choice so

[30:59]at any moment I can choose to forget God in any of

[31:05]my thoughts it's a choice hmm I can choose to forget him

[31:10]as I'm doing this podcast and actually think that I'm doing this

[31:15]podcast yeah it's true we're here and it's true that we're having

[31:18]these deep discussions but it's it's because he created the space for

[31:24]us to do that so and that's why when Imam Ali says

[31:27]there's a universe in each of us this is what he's talking

[31:35]about I also think that there's a space in which arrogance is

[31:43]a natural part of also our human being and it's good to

[31:49]check ourselves all the time and just to be conscious of that

[31:53]arrogance and say do I really think that I've accomplished that like

[31:59]do I really think that CNN happened because of Najaf a-z CNN

[32:05]happened because of a lot of prayers that the work would be

[32:13]pleasing to God it would be elevated by God I don't think

[32:16]I got myself there mm-hmm I don't think so at all and

[32:21]if it wasn't for the thousands of people who help this organization

[32:24]out it would not have gotten there but did I still make

[32:30]the decision to get a non-profit yes have I made the decision

[32:34]to not take a paycheck and sacrifice over a million and a

[32:37]half dollars from my family's life to do this work yes those

[32:43]were decisions I made but I made them in a sacred space

[32:44]to serve God trusting that I won't go hungry I'll still have

[32:51]clothes on my back my family will be okay so there's that

[32:54]kind of deal that we make day in and day out with

[32:59]God want to making it with ourselves is the problem right so

[33:03]because then that's independent and we can't control so many variables so

[33:10]why do we think that we are so independent or natural right

[33:13]where I do push back and I push back on all the

[33:18]scholars everybody knows us about me I just cannot handle that word

[33:24]test God is testing you because I just I see that as

[33:28]like a limitation on our humanity I rather say God challenges us

[33:33]and we have capacity and once we reach the capacity if we're

[33:38]willing God will take off the lid and there'll be another challenge

[33:43]in another capacity toward self-actualization actually right so honest she was a

[33:48]discussion a little bit I want to talk about some personal things

[33:50]in your life that's okay but I wanted to wanted to know

[33:56]if you remember a conversation we had about 20 years ago okay

[33:59]we were sitting and honestly I think it was like a winter

[34:05]was like probably February and we were sitting in what was then

[34:07]called the yma it was the actual building that houses the Maya

[34:10]school now we were having a meeting or in the hallways and

[34:16]we were having a conversation about her lives just in general and

[34:21]you said something to the effect that one day I have so

[34:30]many stories to share that I want to write a memoir about

[34:33]my life so 20 years ago you're saying this and so much

[34:42]has happened in the past 20 years do you think you're still

[34:48]at that place I'm writing it I'm finally writing it because I

[34:53]think it's the stories of so many other people honey my life

[35:00]is the story of so many people who telling their stories have

[35:05]profoundly affected me and I think their stories with proud profoundly affect

[35:09]other people and so you know I'm really big on this American

[35:14]Muslim identity with some American identity I I had always grown up

[35:20]feeling a little marginalized in the sense that I wasn't hot enough

[35:23]or you know because you don't speak exactly the right way and

[35:26]you know all of those kinds of things and then when we

[35:31]know in Islam all kind of I made these decisions about being

[35:36]a Muslim and tap you know intellectually choosing this time and then

[35:41]choosing the path I'd make all those things I think this isn't

[35:43]a point of arrogance it's a point of truth for me that

[35:47]there's something very special and unique about the American Muslim identity and

[35:52]I think when it's allowed to be nurtured the way my identity

[35:59]has been allowed to be nurtured it it has so much massive

[36:02]potential to do good in the world hmm because we're very unique

[36:09]you know or not you can't really put us on the census

[36:10]you can't tease out the American Muslim identity it's a new identity

[36:16]it's a blended identity of these beautiful cultures and this intellectual spiritual

[36:20]Islam and that's not bound to cultural you know no issues or

[36:28]norms right we can get through that I think that is a

[36:34]very very very powerful place so those are the stories of so

[36:37]many other people and so the book is but I think a

[36:41]chapter five now whoa yeah you're actually writing it yeah I have

[36:44]a little bit of help now someone actually stepped up after CNN

[36:46]and said have you ever thought about writing a book I said

[36:51]yeah I started but I'm only on chapter three I don't have

[36:53]the time and I don't know how to make the time for

[36:57]that maybe it's just not the right time and this person sex

[36:59]I started two years ago said I want to do it for

[37:02]you I'll be your ghostwriter I said I have zero money please

[37:05]and I'll do it for you for free Wow so now I

[37:10]have a ghostwriter who's helping me out amazing writer so see that's

[37:14]the kind of thing I've learned if something's not happening the only

[37:22]door you can knock on is God's door because that door will

[37:26]open when it's the right time so two years ago wasn't the

[37:31]right time for me to write the book why I don't know

[37:34]maybe because I wasn't seeing an global top-ten hero at the time

[37:39]maybe now the book will do better and maybe now there will

[37:41]be more lives touched as a result of the stories of all

[37:44]these people who've affected my life so the now continuing on that

[37:51]your life story about being other people's stories as well you have

[37:56]a brother that is differently abled as you would as you would

[38:00]coin it as you have have termed it before I've heard you

[38:05]say that before who has a lifelong terminal illness and it was

[38:09]still alive today hum did it that is neva Sami mhm and

[38:12]I've had a lot of conversations with you about him because I

[38:16]too have someone in my life that I deeply love there's that

[38:20]also has a terminal illness and I've kind of leaned on you

[38:23]but I have an experience that like you have and like your

[38:28]family has I was wondering if you can give us some insight

[38:30]just maybe a backdrop a story about about how it was growing

[38:36]up with him and even today what kind of lessons he teaches

[38:39]you and what those lessons can help other people with as well

[38:45]you know he's an everyday reminder just last night he was a

[38:48]reminder so I want to go back to the word terminal illness

[38:52]because one of the things that I've been teaching physicians as I'm

[38:59]aging and staging is that in reality we're all terminal and so

[39:05]it's really important because we don't see ourselves as terminal right because

[39:10]there's an intrinsic hope that we're going to live forever and so

[39:14]coaching and and helping people understand that there is intrinsic hope for

[39:19]those who believe in an eternal life we aren't going to die

[39:22]we are going to live forever with just leakages transitioning right and

[39:28]so I'm writing about this idea of what it means to be

[39:32]terminal and then if we can actually capture what it means to

[39:36]be terminal then we would really live a lot freer every single

[39:38]day if we thought about it would also help me understand disease

[39:41]as well and that our lives are terminal we are all going

[39:46]to lead kind of kind of underlining or pointing out that the

[39:50]mortality is very real and vivid and everyone's lives exactly right so

[39:55]regarding Sammy you know my mom is I think the hero and

[39:59]the story because even at 88 years old she is still cooking

[40:06]for him and trying to help him she could hardly walk and

[40:12]so you know he's seeing that about love I watched it last

[40:15]night I'm like oh my goodness you know his soup is this

[40:21]that sam has been a voice in all of our lives I

[40:22]was just texting gal last night about this about how powerful Sam's

[40:31]resilience is so Sam I say he's differently abled because we grew

[40:35]up my mom treated Sam like any of us so we fought

[40:40]with him like siblings fight he spit at us because he couldn't

[40:42]hit us like you know what I mean like you know Russell

[40:47]with us and he yelled and screamed and he went to prom

[40:49]and you know he cared about when he was you know a

[40:54]teenager and his pimples and all those things everything that we go

[40:58]through he just cannot move a thing so we do everything for

[41:04]him from brushing his teeth to q-tipping his ears to feeding him

[41:07]but last night I was feeding him and it takes and he'll

[41:10]probably watch his podcast it takes several hours to feed him and

[41:17]you know you're sitting there looking at this man 64 years old

[41:23]not married no children waiting for someone to chop his food and

[41:29]literally put a spoon in his mouth and I'm doing this and

[41:38]I'm thinking to myself we are so little when we're so wrapped

[41:42]up on our own issues mmm but this is a person who

[41:48]still has huge hope for his wife and he's figured out how

[41:53]to be large and in charge of his own entire life by

[41:56]the pupils of his eyes you know my dad was sick of

[42:01]all my siblings Sam was the most helpful to me he ordered

[42:03]all my dad's prescriptions by moving the pupil of his eye which

[42:07]is the only thing that can control his communication he golfs online

[42:13]he watches movies he handles all of my mom's bills he is

[42:20]the man of the house yet he can do nothing for himself

[42:22]his resilience his desire to live he's literally choking yesterday trying to

[42:29]eat his food because the muscles in his throat are shutting down

[42:33]he has about this much left to be able to just fit

[42:38]a spoon in and he's still choosing to eat even though he

[42:44]might aspirate over a feeding tube because he loves his life he

[42:50]never complains he can't do one thing nothing but can do everything

[42:56]at the same time he has created in me a tremendous awareness

[43:04]that I can move that's why I move and that's why every

[43:10]moment has to count for me because I'm keenly aware that he

[43:14]can't move when people waste time they make me nuts what do

[43:20]you wasting time for why go serve the world you don't have

[43:26]to be a big shot to serve the world just go do

[43:28]good you know in medical ethics to do good and to do

[43:31]no harm I live with that every single day to do good

[43:35]and to do no one and it's helped me a lot because

[43:40]I think about Sam every single day every day I know when

[43:42]he goes to heaven he's not gonna have a wheelchair I get

[43:46]that and hamdulillah I'm gonna meet him and he's going to be

[43:50]walking I know that but what he has done in our family

[43:55]and for our family none of us siblings have been able to

[43:58]bring value to our family like he's brought to our family and

[44:03]he's been the president of his organizations he's one of the most

[44:08]active fundraisers for zoom an online mm-hmm and he just has a

[44:11]sense of humor and the thing that hurts me the most is

[44:16]when people look at him with pity but he does not pity

[44:22]himself he has no pity for himself and I don't know how

[44:25]he does that she was like Sam use his own memoir Sam

[44:34]is his own memoir he really is beyond amazing you know I'm

[44:38]kind of it's the loss of words which is just kind of

[44:43]shared with me because I think as human beings and as privileged

[44:50]as we are having everything at our fingertips and being able to

[44:59]move extremities in her bodies and you know able to that I

[45:03]you know lid and protect ourselves from or know the sunlight and

[45:07]feed ourselves and a person like this is unable to move not

[45:16]one part of their body and is grateful for every single moment

[45:20]of it except many of us you know get very agitated and

[45:25]impatient we don't get what we want when things don't go our

[45:28]way and it's definitely such a life lesson you know it's interesting

[45:34]you said that about the eyelids because yesterday when I was feeding

[45:39]him he's getting red right around you know the eyelids and that's

[45:43]because the muscles to close the eyelids are weakening and so his

[45:48]eyes are becoming very dry and very irritated and as I was

[45:53]feeding him yesterday didn't Sam I hope that you're listening to this

[45:56]I know you will I couldn't help but reflect about my goodness

[46:00]just the eyelid I you know when the mursaat says that we're

[46:10]so ungrateful we are such ungrateful human beings at the same time

[46:17]we moaning take about things that are really irrelevant like first world

[46:24]issues right first world problems as they say we live in a

[46:27]very affluent society many of us have most almost everything that we

[46:32]need and I think many of us spend a lot of times

[46:34]at least complaining nodded and that any way in any way kind

[46:41]of grateful for what we've what we've been given actually but at

[46:43]any moment any one of us could be like Sam at any

[46:47]moment even though he was born with muscular dystrophy any one of

[46:50]us could be in a car accident that would make us paralyzed

[46:56]and so that's the idea here when we talk about living in

[46:59]that moment like what are you gonna do with that moment was

[47:04]there ever a moment for you or anyone in your family in

[47:07]which they were almost embittered by seeing their loved one have an

[47:17]illness like this did you ever feel that you went and you

[47:20]know through that and asked God why was that part of that

[47:26]healing process that took you to come into terms or you know

[47:28]reconcile that you do have a family member that will never be

[47:34]like you and how you know what works some of your thoughts

[47:36]and reflections in those moments you know I have a couple of

[47:42]six siblings so I had my brother who needs a heart transplant

[47:45]my eldest brother was like you know the gem of our family

[47:51]life and um he's just a very unique human being I'm so

[47:54]like you know the idea that he needs someone else is parked

[48:03]and what that really means is then profound but I say at

[48:07]least his lived he's 67 I think now and he's been living

[48:13]with his heart problem since he was 32 I have a sister

[48:14]who has battled four cancers should have died many times including a

[48:23]couple of months ago and she's still with us her these you

[48:31]know when your siblings or the children of your siblings or the

[48:37]people who are your DNA are sick and ill I don't ask

[48:39]why I ask how can I help what can I do to

[48:46]make their lives just a little bit better what do they need

[48:52]and to try to understand that this is temporary but if they've

[48:57]lived good lives these diseases and illnesses these are temporary things and

[49:03]they're gonna grow from them and all of us are as a

[49:08]family as well and there's resilience in it it's not submitting to

[49:12]the disease because I don't really believe that like God sits there

[49:15]and gives you the whammy and says you know like The Wizard

[49:18]of Oz you're gonna get this and you're gonna get that and

[49:20]you're gonna get this I just believe it happens because God created

[49:24]the universe and things are going to happen the challenges and how

[49:27]do you handle it when it happens I again think Sam has

[49:33]taught us all a level of resistance but faith has completely guided

[49:38]my family and it's the hope that we have God I think

[49:46]that somehow someway these lessons are there and you just managed day

[49:52]by day it hurts we cry a lot we were worried a

[49:59]lot we pray a lot but it is what it is and

[50:03]so I think unfortunate to come from a family that's had a

[50:06]lot of challenges a lot we've seen death a lot more than

[50:12]most families in our community but there's something that it's taught us

[50:16]it's taught us how to love differently I think all my cousins

[50:22]share the same experience what do you see love differently Joanna we

[50:24]don't take it for granted like even if you look at our

[50:27]cousin's chat the mail inside of my family cousins chat it's always

[50:33]about the memory of the people we've lost and about how those

[50:35]memories are so profound it's like when your grandmother died highly in

[50:39]you and your cousins all went up onstage and talked about how

[50:44]she made her mooney you know in these memories like my family

[50:49]relishes and the memories of the life it doesn't really focus on

[50:52]the death and I think that's just taught us how to love

[50:58]differently mm-hmm we don't have to get together all the time to

[51:00]be a close family but when the chips are down we are

[51:04]there and I think that's important the priority again God family than

[51:09]everything else so God family and everything else we know that you

[51:13]do a lot of service work in your day-to-day you run a

[51:18]very successful organizations event international you have many many volunteers thism Anat

[51:25]Ariens people that donate the people that are in the trenches with

[51:30]you working every day there was something that you once said to

[51:33]me that also resonated and you had taught me and I wanted

[51:38]to talk a little bit about that and kind of shift the

[51:39]focus and potentially end this because we need to need to wrap

[51:46]up you were sitting in you were standing in front of a

[51:48]group of about 20 young adults youth leaders people who wanted to

[51:53]give back to the community people who had a lot of energy

[51:56]and we're bright-eyed and you said to people don't ask how I

[52:03]can become a leader I kind of vividly remember how you said

[52:06]this I don't know why I just kind of stuck in my

[52:11]head she said like don't ask how I could be a leader

[52:13]but ask how I can be of service to others and from

[52:18]that you kind a term that I hadn't heard at that time

[52:22]service leadership or servitude or a servant leader as you coined it

[52:29]and I wanted to ask you how does that impact both your

[52:32]organization and also your daily hustle what does that mean explain to

[52:36]some of the viewers there's the listeners daily awesome I never thought

[52:40]about that but I guess a daily drive house well it is

[52:44]a because you know just comes to step back a little bit

[52:49]the concept of leadership especially in the West is this kind of

[52:53]full force someone's gonna take you know the bull by the reins

[52:56]and you know they are gonna be the center figure to bring

[53:02]about any type of change or success and at any cost right

[53:05]and that is a courageous leader that is a good leader those

[53:10]are the leaders we want on you know in our at the

[53:12]head of our companies in the CEOs it's very different that what

[53:20]you explained to me many many years ago and what you've showed

[53:23]to us personally that's very profound that you remember that so the

[53:28]reason why corporate America is having its struggles is because it's adopted

[53:33]a leadership model like like that that you take the bull by

[53:38]the horns that you're the courageous person courage comes this the first

[53:43]time I've said this because it's just come to me the courage

[53:48]comes when it's not about you and that's when I that's what

[53:56]I meant by being a servant leader now this was taught to

[53:59]me by Stephen Covey a great Mormon leader I'm the seven Habits

[54:04]of Highly Effective People but servant leadership means that it's not about

[54:11]you it means that you are able to relish in the joy

[54:18]of watching other people reach their full potential and be leaders of

[54:24]themselves first the most effective leaders have conquered their self and then

[54:31]once they have the personal victory as he says they're able then

[54:37]to have the public victory and their circle of influence begins to

[54:40]grow and grow and grow and grow because there is an authenticity

[54:44]about the love that they have for other people and they see

[54:52]in other people God and the god-given potential and they want to

[54:57]build that capacity because they know that that influence is going to

[55:02]keep growing and growing and growing so if I invest my time

[55:06]in the yma leadership in the NYC leadership in the volunteers or

[55:14]the directors or my children or mice anyone that comes into my

[55:19]circle of influence if I am able to lead from behind the

[55:22]troops then I can see where the troops can go this was

[55:29]a general McCarthy leadership principle the greatest leaders lead behind and then

[55:37]they can see where their troops are going but if you're a

[55:41]leader who's about yourself you're gonna lead from the front and oftentimes

[55:46]you don't care what's happening behind you because you just worried about

[55:51]where you're going I hummed it a lot I could say with

[55:57]the right leadership training with difficult difficult life lessons with a lot

[56:03]of tears and a lot of hardship and a lot of soul-searching

[56:04]I think that I can say I've become a leader who understand

[56:12]how to lead from behind the strongest leader is the one who's

[56:15]in the service of others and it's not what I think they

[56:17]need is being able to stop yourself and to not be in

[56:22]an imposing position to think about what they need because you're understanding

[56:29]their potential and it really comes from God it's living a God

[56:36]conscious life that he has a plan and gave us the freewill

[56:41]to plug into his plan and I just I hope to be

[56:47]one of those people who is able to plug in to that

[56:54]plan and to understand that that plan when you submit not now

[56:58]say submit in a serve rendering way where you have nothing to

[57:02]do you have to be very it's an active act of god-consciousness

[57:08]then everybody in front of you becomes very valuable and I see

[57:16]that hmm and it gives me great hope you know that word

[57:27]value just I feel as though you look at what's going on

[57:31]around the world right now and some of the work that you

[57:38]do with MN it's almost as if the solution to all the

[57:43]world's problems into the disharmony and dysfunction that we have you know

[57:47]we are living in a war-torn time and our countries are completely

[57:51]being pillaged and so many people want refugees and we're encountering things

[57:57]like xenophobia and Islamophobia you know here in this country and we

[58:02]have a leader that you know wants to sacrifice others in order

[58:06]to gain political you know stronghold but it's almost as if if

[58:10]we were to stop I just want to get your thoughts on

[58:15]this and actually value other human beings and care for them to

[58:20]provide for them what they need that none of this would exist

[58:27]that's the human challenge if we were to put ourselves in that

[58:32]frame of mind always as leaders as politician this physicians as nurses

[58:37]as mothers as fathers brothers and sisters as an activist there's so

[58:41]many other roles that we play in our lives you find that

[58:46]it will be a world that is filled with a harmony and

[58:52]they're just like what are your thought I know I'm trying to

[58:54]essential eyes it and make it so simple but maybe it is

[58:57]very simple it is very simple it really is it we have

[59:06]shrunk and depleted core human values to the point that they almost

[59:14]seem frivolous yet these are the core human values upon which our

[59:20]humanity depends upon and is challenged by so when I am looking

[59:26]at you and I've said this many times this is why loves

[59:32]a man because it's the world is there I'm looking at you

[59:35]as a creation that God made every child is born innocent into

[59:39]this world every child has this natural fit that this natural you

[59:50]know lean toward the spirit and so I know that that is

[59:54]in every human being even the worst of human beings but I

[59:59]always believed that those human beings became bad because somehow someway either

[60:07]the deck the deck was stacked against them or there wasn't enough

[60:14]love something something went wrong which is why for me any victim

[60:19]that can find God finds unrelenting love hmm and a love that

[60:29]no human being can give you can be equivalent to the love

[60:34]that this Lord who created you can give you so to me

[60:37]that person's humaneness has tremendous value because God did make a decision

[60:47]to create that person that's enough for me it's kind of goes

[60:52]full circle to the initial hadith that we shared that you shared

[60:57]once with me and that you also shared in the CNN acceptance

[61:03]speech about the universe being within a human being and if we

[61:11]understood it correctly basically what the Imam is saying is that a

[61:17]human being has that value and intrinsic dignity they both need people

[61:22]to understand that they have it and the others around them to

[61:30]support them in their humanity and in that struggle it is intrinsic

[61:34]dignity and that's why it's a man people feel that they are

[61:39]important that they count I will admit I've been jaded by a

[61:45]lot of things that have happened in our community that's no secret

[61:50]but I believe that I've learned that when people espouse to arrogance

[61:56]or destruction it's because somewhere deep in their heart they really are

[62:02]very sad and they really are looking for a sense of control

[62:10]and power because they haven't understood that God is in control and

[62:18]that ultimate power lies with him and then it's delivered to us

[62:24]it's very releasing to know that you don't need other people to

[62:29]validate you it's very comforting to know that God is the great

[62:38]validator and to just make a deposit into that spiritual bank account

[62:42]every single day can do a world of wonder for who we

[62:46]are I also believe that goodness begets goodness so I think that

[62:50]the more goodness we sprinkle the better it's going to be because

[62:54]I also think evil begets evil which is why there is a

[63:00]call in my heart that all of us every one of us

[63:01]just do one good thing a day and we will change I

[63:07]believe that because the universe is listening I mean listen if Siri

[63:11]can listen to us really if Alexa can listen to us do

[63:17]we really think that the universe isn't listening but we still have

[63:20]free choice the choice to know God or not know the choice

[63:24]to choose God or not choose God it's that simple hmm this

[63:30]has been a very beautiful time I really appreciate this I miss

[63:38]talking with you I'm sure we'll talk money I need unity yeah

[63:44]we're in Detroit definitely we do have to do a shout out

[63:47]to the foundation d'être foundation hotel for hosting us I wanted to

[63:55]thank them hopefully we as a community are able to realize a

[63:58]similar space in which people can have these conversations and express their

[64:02]love of others in humanity and of their faith because that what

[64:07]that that is definitely what this podcast is about and what our

[64:14]movements about hopefully and I am we can't thank you enough for

[64:17]the work that you're doing and we've you've inspired many of us

[64:21]and it's given us that will that is needed to kind of

[64:26]refocus and be that vision you know that takes that Muslim community

[64:31]Muslim American community forward and to positive things in our society I

[64:35]want the American Muslim community to take the world in a positive

[64:40]direction cuz in a weekend we definitely can any last words thoughts

[64:44]it's really amazing for me to see like the yma leadership come

[64:52]full circle and start doing these things you know we spent a

[64:55]lot of time together talking living life sharing crying everything and again

[65:00]this is an example of how when the intention is aligned with

[65:04]the divine the energy never dies mmm and that's the lesson I'm

[65:12]taking away from today that's amazing - thank you all to all

[65:14]the listeners as well thank you hygena job as you for coming

[65:16]here and just you know if you do not know as a

[65:22]men International is a humanitarian organization that is based here in the

[65:27]Detroit metropolitan area you can go to their website Amen International org

[65:31]and there are many opportunities to get involved to sign up and

[65:36]to also donate and and lastly this podcast is run by the

[65:42]Minato foundation or manat a collective as we like to call it

[65:49]and Manoa is lighthouse translated so we wanted to thank them as

[65:52]well for putting this together and having this podcast thank you again

[65:56]and I would also like to thank Malak as new as well

[66:02]who's here helping us coordinate all the logistics and do some taping

[66:07]medic has been a refreshing kind of type of youth that has

[66:12]come forward and as doing many great things with with her organizational

[66:18]work and we look forward to all the projects that she has

[66:21]coming up - she's definitely Aminata herself yes HeLa thank you so

[66:25]much some articles [Music]

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Sacred Space: Conversations with Najah Bazzy on Faith, Hope & Healing

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التالي

Sacred Space: Conversations with Najah Bazzy on Faith, Hope & Healing

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