Never Hopeless - A Heart to Heart Discussion on Lebanon and Palestine

2 Bekeken· 24/11/10

MYC Media
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Featuring Sheikh Azhar Nasser, Sayed Ahmed Qazwini and Hajj Hassan Chami.

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Transcript

[0:02]Ali are you ready we're ready Muhammad Muhammad alikum everyone my name

[0:16]is um Hass sham uh it's an honor to be here I'm

[0:18]not sure why the NC has invited me you know nobody special

[0:23]but thank you so much for having me on stage with uh

[0:27]say Ahmed andar which are good friends of myself uh this is

[0:30]just be an informal discussion you know there's times for lectures and

[0:32]there's time to sit back and have an informal discussion and inshallah

[0:35]you know we can we'll bring light to some of the issues

[0:39]that are going on right now between Palestine and Lebanon uh maybe

[0:42]touch up on a little bit on the elections um and then

[0:45]at the end we'll have room for comments and questions from the

[0:48]crowd so um just to break the ice because I know everyone's

[0:52]so serious which one of you guys voted for Trump it's okay

[1:00]like Che all right that's good to know guys the last the

[1:07]last 13 months we all witnessed we've been witnessing a live documented

[1:10]genocide on our phones horror that none of us would ever imagined

[1:15]you know a lot of us are a little numb because it's

[1:23]just hello oh your mic is working it's just human to be

[1:30]desensitized to these type of issues but we noticed was after about

[1:37]11 months of uh Palestine it started in Lebanon it started on

[1:41]Lebanon on October 8th but it became a wider war in uh

[1:47]in September and so specifically in our community uh we have a

[1:50]very large Lebanese population and so where the while the Lebanese and

[1:53]many of the others were so focused on Palestine then we got

[1:56]hit hard with Lebanon and I know it's it's a lot to

[1:59]handle uh but the most that we could do is like there's

[2:02]some guilt that I have because I have friends that live in

[2:05]Lebanon so I'd wake up every morning and just text them are

[2:06]you alive are you okay what's going on right and you ask

[2:10]yourself like why not me why is it why are they dealing

[2:13]with this and we're sitting here in the comfort of our own

[2:15]homes and our kids are still being able to do whatever they

[2:17]need to do and whatnot but for me it's more about what

[2:21]is it that we can do you know so number one Dua

[2:25]make prayer number two uh this is something that I firmly believe

[2:28]in is if you can pick up extra shifts at work to

[2:33]make extra money to donate I think that is very important it's

[2:36]it's extremely important because there are so many of our uh friends

[2:41]and our and our brothers and sisters out there who are displaced

[2:44]who are sleeping on the streets who have nothing um and most

[2:47]important you know have a strong support system you know stay around

[2:50]people who care about the cause speak about the cause um not

[2:56]everybody can go out there on social media and be uh and

[2:58]speak about this but there are ways that you can discuss this

[3:01]in your group chats within your families and just always stay grounded

[3:04]with the issue um it is human nature like I said to

[3:09]be desensitized but regardless it's still going on and our brothers and

[3:14]sisters in Palestine and Lebanon wake up and go to sleep to

[3:17]the sounds of bombs and not knowing when they're going to eat

[3:21]next if they're going to be displaced again what section they're going

[3:24]to move to so it's extremely important for us um to stay

[3:27]grounded and and and remind ourselves yes we will get back to

[3:32]normal life but life isn't normal right now and it's very important

[3:36]to keep that in mind um and I'll pass that on to

[3:40]uh AAR there there's so much to to discuss but I just

[3:48]want to share a reflection I've I've had for the better part

[3:54]of a year and that is the the power of of propaganda

[3:58]what this past year has has demonstrated to me is that yes

[4:04]what has unfolded over the past year is is tragic but collectively

[4:13]through unconventional means we have shifted public opinion you know there was

[4:21]a time when the Legacy Media controlled the narrative in fact most

[4:28]Americans uh you know before social media they had a very favorable

[4:38]opinion of of Israel uh they saw them as strategic Ally but

[4:43]what has happened and and this is sometimes you know sometimes good

[4:47]things come out of great tragedies and one of the good things

[4:53]that has come out of all of this you know despite the

[4:57]the the incomprehensible human suffering is that now the world is paying

[5:05]attention to the first time for the first time about what's happening

[5:09]in this region most Americans had no idea and no understanding of

[5:15]the history of Palestine so it's forced a lot of people you

[5:21]know there's already a level of distrust that people have in in

[5:28]the media and this has motivated a lot of people to research

[5:31]the history of the establishment of the the state of Israel you

[5:35]know what happened to Palestine 75 plus years ago who isah who

[5:42]are the houis right who are these people what are what are

[5:48]these groups what do they stand for so I think that what

[5:50]we're witnessing on an international scale is what I would call a

[5:56]sort of intellectual Awakening and I think that that awak Awakening is

[6:04]reflected in the mass protests that we saw across the country on

[6:08]campuses from the east coast to the West Coast and I I

[6:15]felt a sense of hope that yes we have this corrupt establishment

[6:20]we have this this government that's built on lies and manipulation students

[6:28]who were arrested who were suspended who had their student visas revoked

[6:32]My Hope Is that this new generation is going to replace the

[6:39]corrupt leadership and it's not going to happen overnight but I feel

[6:43]like this new generation there is there is a reverence for truth

[6:51]and Justice that I just did not see in the the baby

[6:53]uh the boomer generation so there is there is a silver lining

[7:00]and yes what we have witnessed over the past year is horrific

[7:06]I mean I have seen we've all seen images and footage that

[7:10]will we will carry to our graves because it is permanently etched

[7:17]in our memory but you know sometimes these things have to happen

[7:24]for a grand Awakening and I also when I look at the

[7:32]world I feel that that globally we are a step closer to

[7:37]the of the 12th IM and what I mean by that is

[7:42]that there is widespread discontent with these systems of government and all

[7:51]human beings whether they're in the rural areas of America or in

[7:55]the Far East everyone wants Justice they just want to live lives

[8:01]of dignity they're tired of being lied to and I think that

[8:05]humanity is is closer and they're more ready to receive the message

[8:14]of that awaited Savior and I think everything that is happening is

[8:19]arranging the world for the return and the leadership of the 12th

[8:26]Imam you know um I just want to add to that there's

[8:31]we're so used to right now thinking of the negatives and there's

[8:35]so much negative energy around us and depression and sadness but there's

[8:39]also positives to think about and that's a that's a great Point

[8:41]that's a great way to look at it that's a also reminder

[8:42]that when something's going wrong look at what else what else is

[8:48]being birthed out of it and something like this is beautiful thank

[8:54]youum brothers and sisters so the the topic of this disc discussion

[9:00]as uh you've seen is never hopeless and like mentioned and Hassan

[9:08]uh one way to stay hopeful is to focus on the brighter

[9:16]side the greater good that comes out of of violence and suffering

[9:21]the message that Allah subhana conveys in many verses in the Quran

[9:28]and it may be that you hate something but it's much better

[9:35]for you in addition to what was said we talked a lot

[9:37]for the last year about the the suffering of the Palestinian people

[9:43]and what happened in the last month or month and a half

[9:48]was the shift towards the suffering of our dear brothers and sisters

[9:56]in Lebanon in the south of Lebanon and this area my friends

[10:03]is is very very dear to us in addition to what Haj

[10:05]Hassan said many of you many of our community members they come

[10:12]from the south of Lebanon they have relatives their parents their grandparents

[10:17]so they are very well connected to these areas of Southern Lebanon

[10:24]but the area of Southern Lebanon is much more than that brothers

[10:33]and sisters because for the followers of there is a very rich

[10:38]history a rich history of scholarship one of the greatest amongst the

[10:45]greatest of the Shia school of thought they held from jabal they

[10:51]held from the south of Lebanon and the love for the for

[11:01]IM am can be traced back to over a thousand years ago

[11:04]in that area it is said that it was Abu Abu gari

[11:10]the famous companion of rasool Allah the unwavering companion of rasool Allah

[11:15]he was the individual that planted the seeds of the love for

[11:24]IM Ali and the love for so when you see this passion

[11:30]love and sincerity and devotion for IM husin for for the seeds

[11:43]were planted over a thousand years ago we're talking about almost 1,400

[11:47]years ago so this is not something that just happened in the

[11:53]last couple of decades brothers and sisters it was something in the

[11:57]works for centuries and centuries and it will be be a it

[12:03]will be I believe a phenomenon that will continue until the rise

[12:10]of so yes the people in southern Lebanon are suffering they've completely

[12:21]destroyed many villages they have killed many of the Great resistance fighters

[12:28]in that area but the seeds that Abu which is one of

[12:35]the greatest Companions of rasool Allah and one of the greatest Companions

[12:38]of that they planted in that area they cannot be eradicated this

[12:46]easily and if you just look at our history the school of

[12:49]thought of is a very resilient mhab very resilient even though it

[12:58]has went through countless genocide attempts ever since the time of B

[13:05]mua you had yazid AB if you read the history of what

[13:08]the sh of had to go through because of their love for

[13:12]because they wanted to stand for justice because they followed in the

[13:21]footsteps of IM Hussein just like when we talk about IM Hussein

[13:24]he could have stayed home and life would have been much Rosier

[13:28]for him all he had to do is give us but he

[13:36]said never and likewise today some people were saying well if only

[13:41]Lebanon had stayed out of it we would have been living a

[13:44]peaceful life our Villages wouldn't have been destroyed and so on and

[13:47]so forth but someone that believes in the message of many attempts

[13:53]of genocide one of the greatest Scholars of the Shia school of

[13:58]thought is a scholar by the name of muhammedi Al or something

[14:08]around that they call him a scholar that lived 500 years ago

[14:12]and anyone that goes to h you have to study some of

[14:17]his books until today this this scholar who was in jabal who

[14:23]was in the south of Lebanon this is where he grew up

[14:29]this is where he lived he went went I believe to and

[14:32]he studied there and then he went back to Lebanon and this

[14:41]is during the Ottoman Empire he was a huge a imagine like

[14:47]the that we have may Allah subhana wa tala protect them and

[14:51]prolong their lives he was arrested by the Ottoman Empire he was

[14:59]imprisoned imprisoned in Damascus for months or years simply because he is

[15:06]a follower of someone that disseminates the knowledge of and they say

[15:14]Subhan Allah his book and he even calls it because it was

[15:17]written while he was in Damascus in prison they say he he

[15:25]wrote this entire book that now every single student for the last

[15:28]three four 400 years and until today has to read this book

[15:34]it's it's on Islamic Juris Prudence law they say that he wrote

[15:37]that entire book with his blood do you know why because they

[15:45]would not give him access to any pen this is what they

[15:49]feared from our they feared their pens they feared their paper they

[15:53]feared their ideology and their thought so he wrote the ENT entire

[16:01]book with his blood and he had absolutely no sources all from

[16:04]his memory and Subhan Allah look at how Allah subhana tala gave

[16:08]him this beautiful Legacy but yet this same mer he was executed

[16:14]in front of everyone one of the grand Mar of the sh

[16:17]the Shia during that time they were losing hope they were like

[16:24]if our M that has this much Authority and respect is being

[16:28]slaughtered like an animal like a sheep how can this mhab continue

[16:32]but what we have to realize my dear brothers and sisters is

[16:36]we have a master we have a m we have an IM

[16:44]the 12th IM who is always looking out for this M for

[16:47]the followers of yes of course we will suffer this is the

[16:53]Sunnah of Life suffered the IMs of suffered they went through difficulties

[16:58]but at the end of the today Al IM will never let

[17:04]this m will never let those individuals that are fighting for the

[17:07]truth those individuals that are speaking up not just speaking up through

[17:17]words but also through actions defending the m in Palestine Al IM

[17:21]through the power of Allah subhana wa tala will never neglect them

[17:24]and this was the message that he sent to A's mass murder

[17:29]whatever you can imagine things have happened to the Shia terrible things

[17:34]he told them don't think that I have forsaken you and neglected

[17:41]you he sent this message to and that I don't know I'm

[17:48]oblivious what's happening to you and if it wasn't for what does

[17:53]through his Dua and through his efforts that we don't know what

[18:00]exactly they are but if it wasn't for my efforts you would

[18:07]have been eradicated it's not just a coincidence brothers and sisters that

[18:13]every generation the Shia were always the enemies of the majority of

[18:16]the countries of the world because they said no to Injustice because

[18:21]they would not submit to the tyrants of their time it's not

[18:25]just a coincidence that now you have hundreds of millions this is

[18:31]the work so like we mentioned keep your hope in Allah subhah

[18:34]wa ta'ala we have a m we have an Imam who is

[18:40]watching after us but at the end of the day we have

[18:44]to all suffer in this life and there is a day of

[18:46]judgment that Allah subhah wa ta'ala will serve Justice and accountability inshallah

[18:51]you know uh say when the event started to in Lebanon and

[18:59]some events unfolded very quickly that some people were not expecting people's

[19:03]reactions were a little surprising right what's going to happen you know

[19:06]this isn't supposed to be this way what's going to happen to

[19:08]the Shi and what we have to remember is our reaction at

[19:14]that point tells us who we really are and what what our

[19:18]true beliefs are because if we understand the history of the Shia

[19:20]and the imams we understand we are people that are resilient but

[19:23]go through a lot of Oppression so the future can be victorious

[19:27]or we can be be entering a new phase of Oppression for

[19:33]our time but what we have to remember is the resilience the

[19:36]the school of IM Hussein and how to have faith in God

[19:42]and to remember that your reaction at this time tells you who

[19:45]you really are and and is a good test for you can

[19:50]you touch up on that you know if you look at our

[19:56]our history we have many examples where the Shia community went through

[20:00]a State of Shock because of the loss of of great leaders

[20:06]the most obvious example that comes to mind is the martyrdom of

[20:12]IM Hussein you know we take it for granted today that we

[20:16]see Imam Hussein's movement as a victory in the immediate aftermath the

[20:22]Shia Community was demoralized because they looked at the facts on the

[20:30]ground the facts on the ground is what im Hussein fought against

[20:33]yaz's Army and he was killed and all of his companions were

[20:39]killed and the family of the Prophet are taken as captives and

[20:46]guess what yazid is still in power and he stayed in power

[20:49]for another three years so from the perspective of the of many

[20:54]of the Shi you know you have to understand this what there

[20:58]was no social media at that time the news was what Hussein

[21:04]Rose and he was killed the rebellion was crushed so IM Zin

[21:09]finds himself in a situation where on the one hand he has

[21:16]to process his own grief you know sometimes we forget that yes

[21:21]he's the IM but he's also a human being who has to

[21:28]process the human tragedy so on the one hand he has to

[21:32]process that grief and on the other hand he has to ensure

[21:38]that people don't lose hope so how do you how do youly

[21:48]remind people of what happened in K because listen the Battle of

[21:53]narratives existed at that time too in the same way today it's

[21:59]a battle of narratives you have the the The Narrative of the

[22:02]oppress and then you have the Israeli propaganda it's it's a battle

[22:07]of of stories it's a battle of narratives that existed during the

[22:12]time of IM the ums the official statements coming out of the

[22:16]government is that this is this Hussein was just a rebel and

[22:18]we crushed a rebellion he was trying to destabilize the Islamic empire

[22:23]and we crushed the Rebellion so IM Z he he doesn't allow

[22:31]the tragedy to him what he does is he uses the tragedy

[22:42]to Galvanize people so he's grieving he's reminding people of the tragedy

[22:48]but at the same time he has to tell the Shia that

[22:54]the Caravan has to go on we have to pick up the

[22:58]pieces and we have to re build and guess what brothers and

[23:00]sisters IM Zid wasn't relying on the ums to save him he

[23:07]wasn't relying on the government to rebuild the Shia Community after caral

[23:12]do you know how many companions how many Shia there were in

[23:16]the theological sense IM Z had three to five he says in

[23:24]the immediate aftermath of carala three to five people were left he

[23:28]literally had to build an entire um from the ground up so

[23:36]what im Z went through and the Shia went through at that

[23:43]time it was much more difficult than we are enduring alhamdulillah we

[23:47]are oppressed but we're not weak because if you were weak I

[23:55]just sometimes I wish that we understood our strength the way that

[23:59]Benjamin n yah understands our strength sometimes our enemies have a more

[24:04]accurate assessment of our strength than we have of ourselves if you

[24:08]were weak Benjamin Netanyahu wouldn't be sitting in his War cabinet strategizing

[24:12]on how to destroy your leaders what does that tell you that

[24:18]tells you that you have a lot of power you have all

[24:23]of this power just by virtue of what you believe in so

[24:28]yes we are oppressed but we our theology is very important we

[24:39]subscribe to what I would call the only liberation theology that actually

[24:43]exists in the world it's the only Liberation theology so that means

[24:47]that our faith should be very dear to us and that's why

[24:51]in the lectures we emphasized that the prerequisite for victory is and

[24:58]because it's very very important that you appreciate what you have it's

[25:04]a very very powerful message our enemies understand that but do we

[25:10]understand that I think we can open the floor for any questions

[25:17]or comments H we want to make this a conversation with the

[25:23]crowd as well so anybody have any questions comments don't be shy

[25:37]alayum my name is Hass uh can you like explain further what

[25:43]do you mean by we're the only um liberation theology yeah say

[25:48]do you want to take this one you said the first statement

[25:53]you have to answer I I you know when you make bold

[25:55]statements you're going to get questioned about it so so the the

[26:03]reason why I say that it is the only Liberation theology what

[26:05]I mean by that is I'll I'll answer that question with with

[26:10]the following story during the time of IM our seventh IM there

[26:18]was a man a companion of the seventh IM by by the

[26:20]name ofan Jam safan jaman from his last name we know what

[26:27]his occupation is he used to rent out camels and you think

[26:30]like what a weird profession the modern day equivalent of that is

[26:36]like a an enter Enterprise he used to rent out vehicles and

[26:40]camels were like luxury Vehicles so he has this rental luxury vehicle

[26:48]rental business so he comes to IM and he has a conversation

[26:57]with the Imam and the Imam says to him everything about you

[27:04]is beautiful you have very beautiful qualities you're a very Noble person

[27:08]a person of Integrity but there's one thing about you that I

[27:11]find very problematic imagine imagine the IM saying that to you so

[27:17]he's like what is it so he says that I don't like

[27:27]that you rent out your camels to Har ABI the kff so

[27:32]safan he says I rent out my camels to him when he

[27:36]goes for Hajj so he's trying to give a justification that's not

[27:43]I'm not giving it to him so he can go to to

[27:46]Cancun I'm I'm not giving him these Rental Vehicles so he can

[27:53]perform sinful acts for Hajj okay IM am he says okay when

[28:03]does he pay you so safwan Imam says does he pay you

[28:08]in up front or does he pay you when he comes back

[28:14]from Hajj safan says he pays me after Hajj but I don't

[28:19]go with him you know I send my employees I don't accompany

[28:22]him IM he says do you want harun to stay alive long

[28:32]enough to pay you he says yes Imam says the Imam says

[28:43]whoever wants them to live is one of them find me one

[28:50]story like this one narration from any religious tradition that conveys this

[28:57]level of intolerance for aiding oppressors you're not going to find it

[29:03]there is no tradition that is more intolerant of and helping than

[29:12]the and that is what I mean by liberation theology it's the

[29:18]only belief system that has the power to motivate people to eradicate

[29:26]oppression in all of its forms even if it's something as simple

[29:32]as renting out your vehicles to them so they can go to

[29:36]Hajj it's a nice story any other questions comments behind you behind

[29:47]you if we're witnessing all this suffering and um we're seeing you

[30:06]know all of this happen right now why are we and you

[30:10]said that we know we have so much power within our theology

[30:14]why are we still so disunited um disengaged from Civ Civic life

[30:19]um and taking active steps to pave the way for Imam mahi

[30:29]Hass he's like I don't wear a turban I'm not touching that

[30:35]one backlash that's not fair she's a journalist do you see what's

[30:41]happening tough question it's it's uh it's politeness shrouded and not wanting

[30:47]to answer the question so see I I I think we sometimes

[30:53]we can be a bit pessimistic about our community and I understand

[30:56]where that comes from because our community can be disunited but at

[31:03]the same time I think we have to take a step back

[31:09]and acknowledge the good that we have done considering our limited resources

[31:14]considering that we are not in positions of we were very limited

[31:21]in terms of our positions of power so we have moved the

[31:24]needle of course there's always more that we can do but I

[31:28]I think that how we achieve Unity is not an easy question

[31:35]it's not it's not an easy there's not an easy answer that

[31:38]to that question but I think what I have seen over the

[31:44]past year is that I have seen more Unity within our community

[31:47]than any period yes we still have a long way to go

[31:52]but I think you know I've seen people who have been coming

[31:55]to programs who I've never seen before and and I think that

[32:01]what has happened over the past year in many ways has reignited

[32:04]our passion for our faith you know when you look at our

[32:09]brothers and sisters in Gaza in Lebanon in Yemen you realize that

[32:18]the most important thing in life is your Iman they've had everything

[32:25]has been taken away from them there's no food no water their

[32:29]homes are destroyed their family members have been killed but they still

[32:38]rise for a f prayer they still sayd that faith that resilience

[32:48]has dumbfounded the world many of you may not realize how many

[32:53]people have converted to Islam over the past year because they're they're

[33:01]Amazed by the faith the piety of these people've done our part

[33:07]and we just kind of need to move on so feeling inadequate

[33:09]I think has its utility now at the same time it's important

[33:17]for us to to remember that Allah subhana wa ta'ala is not

[33:24]going to judge us all by the same metric what do I

[33:31]mean by that Allah subhana wa ta'ala when he judges someone who's

[33:36]the Secretary of State or the king of Saudi Arabia his is

[33:40]going to be very different than the average abdah it's just different

[33:47]because you have more power you can make one phone call and

[33:52]end this so there is a higher level of accountability now for

[33:56]many of us the reality might just be very well maybe well

[34:00]be that the all we can do is Dua and we give

[34:05]charity and we protest and that might be the extent of it

[34:09]sometimes we have to stop being so hard on ourselves in the

[34:15]sense that you're not doing the bare minimum the fact that you

[34:18]go to protests the fact that you're posting on social media and

[34:21]you're not allowing the heart I think our community has done more

[34:28]than that we're not just condemning this in our hearts we're condemning

[34:33]it with our tongues with our pens we're condemning it at the

[34:39]ballot boxes you know we're condemning it through our podcasts we're condemning

[34:45]it through our organizations so I don't think it's fair to kind

[34:49]of look at the past year and say that we've completely failed

[34:53]as a community there's always more that we can do but I

[34:57]think that we've we've achieved great things over the year over the

[35:00]course of the year I think that a lot of Muslim leaders

[35:04]and Arab leaders I think that they've failed miserably and Allah is

[35:09]not going to judge us the way that he judges them we're

[35:12]doing our best inshallah we have the ability to do more um

[35:18]but I I I'm quite impressed by what I've seen from our

[35:22]community over the past uh Year yes it's not perfect we've made

[35:29]mistakes we will continue to make mistakes but I I I think

[35:33]that sometimes it's important to acknowledge the small victories right and I

[35:41]think that the fact that you know the word you know that

[35:45]Zionist is is associated with something that's negative I think that's a

[35:53]win the fact that we've changed the nomenclature the the terminology has

[35:56]changed and I think a lot of people people are starting to

[35:59]question a lot of the things that they've been told all of

[36:03]all of their lives and you you had a role in that

[36:05]and just as you know Sam mentioned that over a thousand years

[36:14]ago the activism and the the work of Abu in ja he

[36:19]planted the seeds and the resistance movement that we see today these

[36:24]are the fruits of those seeds so what we're doing today you

[36:31]know maybe what you're doing today is planting the seeds for the

[36:37]liberation of Palestine that our kids are going to witness and when

[36:43]Palestine is liberated and I believe that it will happen that our

[36:48]kids and our grandkids and our great-grandchildren will be able to tell

[36:52]their children that your great great grandfather look at this picture of

[37:00]him protesting you know look at this interview that he did you

[37:02]know look at how he kind of he put himself in danger

[37:10]to ensure that the lies do not get pedal so sometimes you

[37:14]have to look at your efforts as seeds you know the reality

[37:17]is we might not see the fruits but at least let's plant

[37:25]the seeds you know I want to add to that um I

[37:26]believe we are are actually doing a great job with Civic engagement

[37:30]guys you got to remember a lot of us are first generation

[37:35]some of the younger ones here are second generation and for most

[37:39]of my life and I'm 35 years old the media and the

[37:44]West has been at war with us with my religion with my

[37:46]identity with our people right and for so long before this past

[37:51]couple years you couldn't come get out and speak you were afraid

[37:54]to speak there are certain things you couldn't say you didn't have

[37:57]the courage to do it because you would either get you know

[38:02]blamed for some sort of terrorism that's not true get fired from

[38:05]your job and it wasn't um the common thing for someone to

[38:09]go on social media and speak right so if you look at

[38:11]in the last couple years how many Brave journalists there are in

[38:14]our community that are writing about this how many Brave um social

[38:17]media I don't want to say influencers but people who have taken

[38:20]their platforms and grew their platforms to speak about this I think

[38:23]we're actually doing a great job with where we're at and where

[38:27]where we've come from because we aren't we are a community who've

[38:29]been here for a hundred years who've had the privilege and the

[38:32]freedom as many other communities have now what we do what we

[38:34]have to work on is maybe a little more structure maybe a

[38:38]little more organization but that comes with time you know we'll refine

[38:42]the way we do things and the more that people speak up

[38:44]and and and tolerate this and allow this to happen I think

[38:49]it'll slowly just mold into it but what I say is for

[38:53]those who are um taking the lead whether it's in journalism like

[38:55]there's a great company there's a great group in our Community called

[38:58]TMJ they do a phenomenal job uh if you guys are familiar

[39:02]with them I highly require you guys I highly recommend you guys

[39:05]follow them on social media and read the articles they they've written

[39:07]about and watch their videos continue to take the lead with that

[39:12]and for those who are on social media or who are in

[39:13]their group chats who are you know organizing protests continue to take

[39:16]the lead with that because slowly and surely as time goes on

[39:21]you're going to allow you're going to pave the path for more

[39:23]leaders to do what you guys are doing so I would say

[39:26]I believe with what we've had the resources we've had and the

[39:29]community we come from I believe we're doing a great job so

[39:34]that's my that's my two cents 100% And I agree if I

[39:36]want to get a little more specific I think this year the

[39:41]community in in Michigan the Muslim Community in Dearborn area Southeast uh

[39:47]Michigan I think um was phenomenal in what they achieved I mean

[39:52]just look at the couple of months ago the uncommitted movement right

[39:56]we are a drop you could see us as a drop in

[40:01]the US 330 million but we were making huge Ripple effects all

[40:08]over the place the uncommitted movement I believe that was something huge

[40:13]that no one expected Muslims could pull off so that was something

[40:17]that you know something um that you can we we all helped

[40:23]in participated in something concrete that we saw and um a lot

[40:28]of lot of people did unite in you know in that even

[40:32]in in the strategy and it did help at least at least

[40:34]if you we don't see the results right away at least um

[40:40]we were getting recognized and our voice was reaching those in power

[40:46]that these Muslims that these people in Michigan are a power to

[40:50]reckon with don't take them for granted and I think this was

[40:56]a message that was very clearly communicated through the past elections it

[41:01]doesn't matter who at the end of the day we voted for

[41:06]or or who we thought was the lesser of the evils the

[41:09]point is what what was beautiful I think about you know the

[41:13]Muslim Community in Michigan was that we made it clear to the

[41:20]politicians to the media that we exist and we can make a

[41:23]difference and that's why Subhan Allah you saw these politicians these arrogant

[41:27]politicians who were coming and they were trying to flatter the Muslims

[41:34]it was the other way around they were trying to please the

[41:38]most even if even if you say it's just talk even if

[41:42]it's just acting even that brothers and sisters to achieve that despite

[41:47]our low numbers I don't think any other minority has ever achieve

[41:52]that so alhamdulillah this is from the blessings of Allah subhah wa

[41:56]ta'ala the spotlight that we had as a Muslim Community and I

[42:00]think we were United in hearts in our hearts and in our

[42:05]intention now how that translated that's true we may have not all

[42:09]agreed on who's the best who's the worst because it's not very

[42:15]clear but but the just the the work and the effort and

[42:19]the voices that were um that were made heard in the last

[42:23]couple of months I think they will have a longlasting effect in

[42:31]the political Dynamic here in the US and inallah we we shall

[42:34]see the fruits of that uh in 2020 the night before the

[42:39]elections Kamala Harris was at khf Grill Cala at the VP was

[42:45]in Dearborne the night before the elections this year you seen the

[42:48]entire world speaking about Dearborn Michigan the canteen hosted an election light

[42:53]a nonpartisan watch party for everyone to come and just um see

[42:57]what's going to happen and we had some uh we had a

[43:00]podcast there and they were interviewing a bunch of people from the

[43:02]community right left Center whatever and if what you guys don't know

[43:08]is that the media from Argentina Al jaaz um uh France 24

[43:16]a couple companies from Australia they were all there Channel 2 Channel

[43:23]4 CBS CBS Detroit CBS National New York Times what everybody attended

[43:26]they came to the canteen we didn't even promote it to them

[43:29]but then you think to yourself why Dearborne is a stronghold so

[43:34]they see our power more than sometimes we see our own power

[43:37]and that's what we have to reflect on like everybody's paying attention

[43:40]to Dearborn well it's time that we look around and stop being

[43:46]so divisive and unite as well because we we have to realize

[43:48]that we do control the elections to a certain amount in our

[43:53]in our state for for governor and on a greater scale as

[43:55]a swing state in for the elections but like God says the

[44:01]you can correct this I'm going to butcher it a little but

[44:04]the state of the community doesn't change until you change it yourselves

[44:07]right and so we have to work on ourselves and I speak

[44:12]to myself before I speak to anybody else individually we have to

[44:16]perfect ourselves and work on ourselves before we think any presidential candidate

[44:19]or anyone's going to come here and help us because we are

[44:21]going to help ourselves we have to work on ourselves first take

[44:26]care of our neighbors our friends our family members understand that we're

[44:30]not all going to agree to disagree and I'm also guilty of

[44:32]disagreeing with people and being maybe a little too bold in my

[44:37]stance against about it but then I realize is like man we

[44:39]are the same people and we're against each other but the people

[44:43]above us who are wanting our votes are sitting here trying to

[44:46]get our attention when we're sitting here battling within so the point

[44:49]of this is to for me to tell you guys we have

[44:53]so much power within our own community so much power and there's

[44:57]a lot of change that we have to do within ourselves before

[45:00]we rely on anybody else to bring change to our community each

[45:04]individual and again I speak to myself before anybody else I said

[45:20]uh just quick question for brother Hassen um as far there are

[45:26]shares and sculls encourage Interfaith dialogue with the Jewish Community um so

[45:30]my question to you is what exactly is gained by the Muslim

[45:35]Community and keeping that door as wide open or as going as

[45:42]it is today um because most if not all do believe they

[45:46]are the chosen people of God um and it's just as far

[45:52]as the muslim's mosque always being wide open the synagogues are not

[45:56]as wide open as the MOs are for everybody so my question

[46:00]is as far as Interfaith dialogue with the Jewish Community is there

[46:04]really a benefit for Muslims you're talking about sha and you're asking

[46:08]me I got I got sha here and to say it on

[46:11]stage can I think they can answer the question better than I

[46:12]can you mind if one of them ANW answers the question it's

[46:19]for me I think look um our scholars in our community are

[46:28]more well trained and more knowledgeable when it comes down to the

[46:31]dos and don'ts within um within this environment than I am so

[46:37]to me I look up to our leaders and our and our

[46:40]Scholars that lead the community within the mosques and if they are

[46:44]willing to have open dialogue with the Jews and the Christians and

[46:48]to bring them in and think okay the Jews if if there

[46:52]are scholars in our community who are willing to have uh Interfaith

[46:56]programs with the Jews I'm not going to as long as they're

[46:58]not staunch zionists because there are Jews out there who are against

[47:01]the state of Israel and they're not staunch zionists so why should

[47:04]we cut them out because they're on our side as well if

[47:06]you go to there's over I think a 100,000 Jews that that

[47:09]in New York that attend the protest that are against the state

[47:12]of Israel and whole Palestinian Flags you know so and there is

[47:16]enough Hadith I think you mentioned it earlier regarding the human soul

[47:19]of a Jew at for the funeral so I don't believe if

[47:21]someone is Jewish you just cut them out completely because our faith

[47:27]isn't against Judaism um ourl IAL activism is against Zionism because Zion

[47:30]is a is a political ideology that is against the entire world

[47:34]it's an evil political ideology it's a secular ideology that has hijacked

[47:38]the Jewish faith for a secular state in the name of Judaism

[47:43]and so I don't believe that you should cut out any type

[47:46]of interfaith uh dialogue as long as you know my criticism of

[47:51]any scholar would be hey if these guys are staunch zionists and

[47:53]if they support the state of Israel then there's no need to

[47:55]talk to them would you guys like like to comment beautifully said

[48:01]yeah I mean I I would just I would just add that

[48:06]some of the most important Advocates of Palestinian uh Liberation have been

[48:14]Jewish voices so I think that we can find a lot of

[48:19]strong allies in that community and it's very very important that we

[48:23]don't look at the Jewish Community as a monolith because they are

[48:27]not not uh there are many uh Jews who are staunchly in

[48:33]opposition to to Israel and I think that we can we can

[48:34]benefit a lot from their insights um but I I agree with

[48:41]with Haj Hassan if I I would not share a stage with

[48:43]someone who is affiliated with with APAC or someone who who is

[48:48]proud of the state of Israel because I just I have a

[48:50]simple rule that I I don't share stages with terrible human beings

[48:55]and you're just a terrible human being if if you can associate

[49:00]with that movement and just to add on that real quick um

[49:04]you know like Haj Hassan said and she AAR we have to

[49:13]differentiate between uh Jews and Zionist Judaism is a religion that Islam

[49:19]recognizes as being people of the book and in many verses in

[49:23]the Quran Allah subhah wa ta'ala orders us to to have dialogue

[49:27]with them to have um you know uh good interactions with them

[49:34]to try to promote peace with them so we as Muslims you

[49:37]know this is what the what what the enemy tries to prove

[49:42]against us this is what they try to spread that we are

[49:44]anti-semitic we we hate these people just because they're Jews which is

[49:51]not true we have a position a stance against Israel not because

[49:58]of their religion even if they were Muslims I wouldn't care what

[50:01]their religion is we have a problem with their with their oppression

[50:06]whoever oppresses whoever occupies whoever kills I have a problem with that

[50:14]that's why when Saudi Arabia was doing the same thing to Yemen

[50:16]they were also trying to commit genocide in Yemen we used to

[50:20]speak against this we used to condemn Saudi Arabia Muslim country so

[50:27]it's this is one the pathetic strategies of the zionists themselves just

[50:31]like you saw yesterday I don't know who was following the news

[50:33]there was these uh fights that happened in Amsterdam right after a

[50:37]soccer game anti-semitic fights yeah right away they call it anti-semitic as

[50:41]if those people were targeted because they believed in Judaism because of

[50:46]their love for Moses and and um the the toat and uh

[50:52]David and San this is nonsense my problem with that person is

[50:57]because of his Zionism because he wants to kill children and then

[51:02]he wants to be proud about it even if he's a Muslim

[51:04]I'll still treat him the same way so we don't have an

[51:08]an issue with a Jew just because they're a Jew in fact

[51:13]like I said many verses in the Quran how many times is

[51:16]that mentioned in the Quran the verse that Allah subhana T says

[51:20]have dialogue with peoples of other Faith people of other faith there's

[51:28]numerous hadiths I've seen IM Ali used to have dialogue with uh

[51:37]with rabbis with Jewish rabbis IMI just because that person is Jew

[51:42]doesn't mean we should not have dialogue with them so we have

[51:48]to make a distinction between someone who's aim and someone who follows

[51:53]another religion Ju Just to add to that I think another way

[51:55]that this conf lict is often framed as a religious conflict is

[52:01]that sometimes in the way that they propos Solutions you know with

[52:05]the Abraham Accords and one of the reasons why we reject the

[52:09]Abraham Accords is because it attempts to frame the conflict as a

[52:13]religious conflict that okay we want to resolve the problems in the

[52:18]Middle East so let's get the Muslims and the Jews and the

[52:21]Christians together it's like this is not a religious conflict so the

[52:24]Abraham Accords even though it's sounds beautiful you know invoking the name

[52:31]of ibraim the coming together of the three abrahamic religions but the

[52:35]implicit message is that this is a religious issue but it's not

[52:40]a religious issue we are simply in opposition to a colonial sett

[52:43]so that's important to keep in mind last question this is for

[53:05]you because I see say Ahmed every day in class so how

[53:10]about Hajj Hassan do you does he um I just want to

[53:11]say something literally been to maybe every single Pro protest they had

[53:19]but they were really big at the beginning you know when Gaza

[53:22]started and then they started going down very now you literally like

[53:25]see a 100 people only and like I say I'm going they

[53:30]everyone tells me oh they're not making a difference why are you

[53:32]going um you shouldn't even go and then I feel so guilty

[53:37]not going I can't I have to go I don't care if

[53:42]Community are not going I don't know if it I just feel

[53:48]why did this you know go down so bad and I just

[53:55]feel guilty about that yeah I mean I I think of of

[53:59]a movement is just by see how the enemies react I mean

[54:05]if if you look at the protests that happened on on campuses

[54:09]if those protests just didn't make a difference or they were ineffective

[54:14]they wouldn't have cracked down on them the way that they did

[54:18]if the BDS movement was ineffective you know why is it that

[54:25]you have these multi-billion corporations you know posting losses so I think

[54:30]they are effective but they less effective if we are not organized

[54:38]and I think messaging is very very important and I think that

[54:43]what are the signs that we're going to have because you know

[54:45]sometimes it does happen I remember I I attended a protest and

[54:50]it's a free free Palestine and then you turn around rainbow flag

[54:54]over your head there there needs to be structure I'm not saying

[54:59]that we should exclude other groups but I think that if it

[55:04]is going to be a mass protest there should be a Muslim

[55:07]contingent okay this is our group and we will participate but we

[55:10]cannot allow others to co-op this movement and you know to bring

[55:16]in okay so this is a free Palestine movement and then it

[55:19]becomes like a trans movement and LGBT like it becomes too messy

[55:25]when you have all of these messages trying to you know uh

[55:28]you know uh they're trying to push all of these messages so

[55:31]I think that they have to be better organized and I think

[55:36]that I think that we actually have need to have training on

[55:40]how to conduct ourselves during protests because all it takes is for

[55:45]someone to make a racist comment to to actually make an anti-semetic

[55:52]comment because sometimes that rhetoric does come it's not the the old

[55:57]are they're not like that but you get that one clip that

[56:00]one person has that poster that is conveying a very problematic message

[56:07]and sometimes that disrupts a protest strategize better if we are on

[56:13]the same page in terms of messaging if it's organized because often

[56:18]times what happens is like we don't even know where the mic

[56:22]is it needs to be more organized and and I think that

[56:29]it is very I think it is very uh effective uh but

[56:34]we need to have conversations about things that need to be avoided

[56:38]and things and the type of messages that we need to uh

[56:42]send out because I I'll tell you one lesson that I learned

[56:44]I can't believe I'm I'm saying this but one lesson that I

[56:50]learned from the Trump campaign is that people don't vote because of

[56:54]impressive policies they vote because of how they feel and the messages

[57:00]have to be short and to the point make them a effective

[57:04]on the side of H so I think that we need to

[57:10]simplify the message for the masses and I think that's very very

[57:15]important I mean if you look at the prophet in Mecca so

[57:21]many problems what's the message stop burying your daughters alive stop buying

[57:26]and selling with say there's one God no God but God and

[57:34]you will prosper so the Simplicity of the message is extremely important

[57:41]in the effectiveness of the message so that has a lot to

[57:45]do with our protests so I think that we have to keep

[57:49]things simple and and one thing what uh have you guys heard

[57:56]of tanasi Coots So Tan Co is a is a is an

[57:57]African-American public intellectual he's he's kind of seen as the intellectual successor

[58:03]of James Baldwin he he went to palestin he recently wrote a

[58:10]book called the message and he's been interviewed by the mainstream media

[58:13]and he he says something that I think is very very important

[58:15]he says when I went there everyone told me that you know

[58:22]it's complicated what's happening in Israel what's happening in GZA it's complicated

[58:25]he says when I went there it wasn't complicated it's a parthe

[58:31]it's just it's black it is black and white so I think

[58:34]that we have to zero in on the Simplicity of the message

[58:40]yes there are a lot of great areas but this is not

[58:44]one of them it is black and white and I think the

[58:46]messaging has to reflect the reality that this is it's this is

[58:53]not complicated I want to real quick add to that as someone

[58:55]from the community who's very passion about attending protests I feel like

[58:58]it's uh I feel guilty if I don't go what's what happens

[59:02]over time is there's so many protests organized by so many different

[59:05]groups on so many different days and it sort of waters it

[59:07]down right the message and then there's so and I'm very familiar

[59:13]with all the groups so I look to see who's organizing it

[59:17]a lot of far-left secular uh Progressive groups who are organizing this

[59:23]as well like those ones I don't really attend I I appreciate

[59:25]them shouting out for Palestine but there's a lot of messaging going

[59:29]on there so what happens is you need to respect that I

[59:31]really do I really do respect that but I also understand why

[59:34]a lot of community members are like all right you know I'm

[59:36]I'm not going to show up anymore because every time I open

[59:39]up my phone tcd is posting another protest and it's just all

[59:42]these groups that we don't know about they they they constantly no

[60:00]no use the mic I I I barely can hear you a

[60:05]group of that constantly uh post uh videos uh overseas and I

[60:08]and I speak with these is uh the need for financial assistance

[60:13]in this time I feel like in that sense Hassan's an entrepreneur

[60:17]he's a businessman he does a lot of business I feel like

[60:19]Hassan and the scholars in the city they need way where we

[60:26]can send more uh financial assistance uh overseas what do you guys

[60:30]think about that are you talking you're talking about specifically the scholars

[60:33]who are taking the time to put out to fight the information

[60:35]war on online in general every well there's a lot of uh

[60:42]there's a lot of fundraisers going on that everyone's that everyone's donating

[60:45]to and and specifically we want to remember that we're going into

[60:48]a new season right now it's winter it's cold there so we

[60:49]want to make sure that we're paying attention to these things that's

[60:51]happening there we have all our basic necessities and it's very easy

[60:56]for us to to access it right now uh but you got

[61:00]to remember overseas right now they don't have any of that and

[61:04]based on uh you collab with them uh it seems that uh

[61:07]what what the conclusion is overseas that in a way we have

[61:13]failed them we have generally failed there's so there's tens of thousands

[61:17]hundreds of thousands of dollars being donated my humble opinion is there

[61:21]the group should unite and there should be like a board that

[61:23]sort of splits up where every all these the breakfast you know

[61:28]am is doing an amazing job at raising money Z man is

[61:30]doing an amazing job at raising money but if there is some

[61:33]type of unity with a board that can say Hey listen let's

[61:35]take 10% that goes and funds them that's why I'm not sure

[61:38]if you were here earlier I I said one of the most

[61:40]important things I think is important at this point is if you

[61:43]could pick up a couple overtime shifts wherever you work and dedicate

[61:46]that money because look there's inflation and a few times a months

[61:50]a month take some overtime shifts and dedicate those hours to Don

[61:55]donations and makes a huge difference

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