LYF - Islamic Psychology 3 + Dua Kumayl 04/01/2024

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[44:22]sisters asalamu alaykum welcome back to part three uh in our uh

[44:26]Dua K lecture series titled introduction to Islamic psychology inshallah uh in

[44:32]just a short while we will welcome she Zer is to start

[44:37]his lecture on the iceberg theory of Islamic psychology uh again uh

[44:43]brothers and sisters uh you know without your generosity these programs cannot

[44:48]run so we do have uh the uh donation link I've sent

[44:50]it on the LF community group we also have the machine outside

[44:55]and a cash box so inshallah um any little helps so without

[45:03]further Ado please welcome she Z with a loud Salaam muhamad muham

[46:15]firstly it behoves me to congratulate you all on the ofam alhamdulillah

[46:27]in the last couple of weeks we have managed to areas areas

[46:33]in the first lecture I talked about some of the terms and

[46:36]set some examples of what is covered in Islamic psychology that might

[46:40]be slightly different from psychology itself in the second lecture we took

[46:47]a look at one of the earliest treaties in Islamic psychology we

[46:51]unfortunately did not get enough time to get through the whole of

[46:54]that treaties but afterwards especially among the brothers we got to open

[46:58]up some of the other parts of it as well again my

[47:01]recommendation is to very much take that treaties on board and take

[47:04]a look at it it's only about 30 pages uh in English

[47:09]and the translation is available quite easily I had a very interesting

[47:16]question after the program someone said to me that you know many

[47:19]of the strategies that I heard you mention in the part that

[47:22]you talked about in the lecture those are quite obvious to me

[47:28]they seemed to be something that I would do and uh that

[47:32]came from a person who was more experienced maybe slightly older been

[47:37]through things in life and had thereby learned many things in life

[47:42]and that I think is actually a testament to how good that

[47:48]treaties is that treaties encapsulates wisdom that you learn over time so

[47:53]if you're able to take that wisdom at an early age then

[47:59]it will set you up for the difficulties that are to come

[48:02]ahead and of course one of the key characteristics that Al was

[48:05]talking about was that it's good to surround yourself with people that

[48:13]are wise about these issues because when you yourself find that your

[48:16]emotions are out of control or your analysis of the situation is

[48:22]somehow hampered you will listen to the people that make sense so

[48:26]it it could be something you already know so for example you

[48:30]might know you shouldn't have a crazy Outburst okay you might know

[48:36]that but in the situation it might be hard not to have

[48:39]the Outburst so you need people around you that will reconfirm what

[48:45]you already know so I just wanted to share that as well

[48:48]cuz that was a a good Insight uh that a feel uh

[48:54]brought that together today we are going to look at a solid

[48:56]Theory it's the iceberg theory of Islamic psychology and this all starts

[49:04]out with understanding what we're talking about when we talk about an

[49:08]iceberg so the iceberg theory is something that is spoken about in

[49:12]Psychology in general now what is it about an iceberg that serves

[49:16]as a good illustration for psychology if you look at this picture

[49:21]you might notice a few things the first thing that you will

[49:27]notice from this picture is that there is a part of the

[49:29]iceberg that is above the water and a part of the iceberg

[49:34]that is below the water usually when you're sailing on a ship

[49:37]you will not see what is below the water you will see

[49:41]what is above the water and that is supposed to be an

[49:43]example of how we see each other when we see each other

[49:50]what we see is above the water but what Bel what what

[49:56]uh what else else of that person that we don't see is

[49:58]what lies below the water and that is why the iceberg is

[50:05]larger underneath the water than it is on the surface so what

[50:08]are the kind of things that would be above the water things

[50:11]like a person's style things like a person's facial expression things like

[50:17]behaviors that we see regularly okay those are the kind of things

[50:23]that will be above the water level in the iceberg what would

[50:28]be things that would be below the iceberg things like feelings like

[50:37]past experiences like triggers like traumas all of these things make up

[50:41]what we don't see about a person so what the illustration does

[50:44]immediately is it shows us that there's an outward aspect to a

[50:50]personality and an inward aspect of the personality and that these two

[50:56]are connected okay our sense of style tells us many things about

[51:02]a person's personality in the same way the way Rea we will

[51:05]react in a situation tells us many things about what is going

[51:11]on with but the interesting thing about an iceberg when it comes

[51:15]to a person is that while for the external World there is

[51:19]a certain water level so there only certain things other people will

[51:23]recognize about you from the out side for each and every person

[51:30]the water level itself is lower you know more about yourself than

[51:35]other people know in summary but that doesn't mean that there is

[51:41]more about yourself that you're unaware that you're that you're not aware

[51:45]of so while you may be in touch at times with your

[51:47]feelings your thoughts your emotions and maybe some of your past experiences

[51:54]and so on and so forth there is actually a whole wealth

[51:56]to a person that is sometimes beyond their actual grasp in fact

[52:02]the way we understand the soul in Islam is the soul is

[52:08]is something that is so vast that the epistemological tools that we

[52:13]have like our mind like our heart they are not vast enough

[52:19]to actually understand the depths of the Soul onto a human being

[52:23]there are parts of the soul that we we comprehend and parts

[52:25]of the soul that we don't comprehend so this is the basic

[52:28]model now how can we move towards an Islamic version of this

[52:35]model this is a this was proposed by a scholar called Abdullah

[52:39]rman in one of his most recent books I think this book

[52:45]was uh is actually 2023 maybe 22 23 this is what he

[52:52]proposes for an iceberg model of Islamic psychology which then can be

[52:59]used in Psychotherapy and he uses terms here that you might have

[53:05]seen before the first term is the Naps okay the Naps or

[53:09]the vital self is what we'll talk about in a little bit

[53:12]of detail today the second is the or the intellect the third

[53:20]is the and the fourth is the r these are four aspects

[53:23]of the soul that we can use to understand what is going

[53:28]on within a person and there's a couple of points uh about

[53:31]this diagram before we look at it in detail the first thing

[53:35]is to do with the r the r is something that is

[53:42]not well known to us we don't understand all of the F

[53:46]facets of the r we know that Allah subhana wa ta'ala has

[53:50]breathed into us a and I bre breathe within him from my

[54:00]R of course Allah doesn't have a r this uh connection to

[54:02]Allah subhana wa tala is sure it is to show how blessed

[54:07]and how great the r is just like uh when we talk

[54:09]about the Kaa it's called The Bait of Allah or the house

[54:14]of Allah it's not because Allah has a house it is because

[54:17]that place is so blessed and so great in the eyes of

[54:22]Allah that he attributes it to himself so the r as well

[54:27]it has the station but the r is something that we can't

[54:30]fully grasp it is something that is beyond our grasp entirely and

[54:35]that is why it's there at the bottom of the iceberg and

[54:37]it connects here with what I'm saying in the sense that there

[54:42]are only certain things we know about ourselves there is of course

[54:46]more to talk about that uh in the sense that what the

[54:49]limitations of our own faculties are and what the extent of our

[54:51]soul is because our soul is supposed to be Eternal as well

[54:57]well and eternal means not temporal but that is its own uh

[55:00]area so that's the first point the first point is is that

[55:05]the lowest level of this iceberg is the r and the r

[55:09]is not completely in our grasp the other thing to note about

[55:16]this is that the NS is above the water level okay if

[55:18]you remember what I said is that above the water level is

[55:21]something that is apparent and below the water level is something that

[55:29]is not apparent here the reason why the Naps is above the

[55:33]water level is because this model is for you as a person

[55:39]or for someone who is actually practicing Psychotherapy so for you your

[55:45]NS is something that you can be aware of such that it

[55:49]is not hidden to you yeah and also for someone who is

[55:53]trying to help you with that discussion of your NS they should

[55:56]also be able to understand the enough from uh their session with

[56:00]you but as we start to move below the water level there

[56:06]is the and the so what is the NS I'm hoping many

[56:11]of you have heard of different models of the NS or at

[56:16]least heard of the Naps there are two key models in Islamic

[56:20]literature when we talk about the Naps the Naps essentially talks about

[56:28]the very basic uh pulls and the very basic forces of any

[56:35]human being and this is the first model I'm going to show

[56:38]you it is one that like I said is very very widespread

[56:42]in in the Islamic intellectual tradition when m s comes onto explaining

[56:51]the human development he starts out by saying that when a child

[56:57]is born born the first force that appears within them is desire

[57:00]desire as you see here is a force it's a pulling force

[57:06]a force that will pull benefit towards yourself so the child knows

[57:11]that it needs to benefit from milk it needs to benefit from

[57:14]comfort and it will cry and make a fuss if it doesn't

[57:20]have these things okay so it will that motivating desire within them

[57:25]is something that will then affect their behavior such that they will

[57:31]uh pull those things towards them so it's a pilling Force obviously

[57:36]it's not bad it's a good thing if a baby doesn't feel

[57:40]a sense of desire and doesn't call out for milk or Comfort

[57:46]when it need then it will not continue to survive because it

[57:49]would not draw attention to that to that need okay so the

[57:54]desire is a good thing to realize that that there there is

[57:59]a need there and to pull that benefit towards themselves is a

[58:04]good thing the next thing that develops within a child and for

[58:08]those of you that have children you will know what happens at

[58:11]the age of two it's called terrible twos yeah and then you

[58:17]will also know what happens at four it's called horrible fours and

[58:21]for those of you who are not parents yet in between the

[58:27]age of three there's nothing different it doesn't stop between two and

[58:31]three it carries on the whole way what happens at this stage

[58:34]is that within a child they build a sense of anger they

[58:41]start to have Tantrums yeah they start to demand what they want

[58:45]in a very different way from the kind of innocent way uh

[58:49]as when they were little babies and the force of anger is

[58:55]a pushing force Force okay it's supposed to push away harm and

[58:59]this is why you'll notice that many times when you are trying

[59:04]to protect someone or when you're worried about something you will react

[59:10]with anger because anger like it says here is the force that

[59:12]makes you push away home so for example if somebody is walking

[59:14]down the road and they're about to get run over okay we

[59:20]will shout out to them or we'll pull them hard away from

[59:24]that Danger okay because what we want to do is deflect harm

[59:29]or conversely sometimes if we come home for example from work and

[59:32]we're very very tired and we see that the housework has not

[59:38]been done for example or the house is a complete mess and

[59:42]perhaps there was someone at home that could have tided up the

[59:45]mess we will start to feel annoyed okay and angry the reason

[59:52]we feel angry is because we feel that there's going to be

[59:55]another J job on our plate and so we react to that

[60:01]with anger we try and push away that harm from our sense

[60:03]that we need to relax for example in the moment and if

[60:07]you think about these two forces these are the key forces one

[60:11]pulling Force One pushing force if you think about this in all

[60:18]the different uh times and situations in life you will find that

[60:21]most of what is going on within a person can be summarized

[60:24]in one of these two things either desire either in a positive

[60:31]way or in not such a positive way okay a pushing force

[60:34]and a pulling Force now the next thing to develop inside a

[60:39]child is the third one imagination so what you find is that

[60:43]after a little while you can start to you know uh talk

[60:49]about uh fantasy stories and other things to do with the imagination

[60:52]things like uh counting and numbers and more abstract things as they

[60:56]grow up okay and the imagination is a multiplying force again it

[61:04]is not bad inherently it is something that is good inherently in

[61:08]fact what the philosophers say is that if we didn't have imagination

[61:14]we wouldn't be able to find our way home because whenever we

[61:18]go somewhere in order to find our way back we have to

[61:21]recall all of the images that we took along the way and

[61:26]put them in reverse order and we can only do that with

[61:30]an imagination without an imagination you can't do that but imagination is

[61:36]a multiplying force and of course as we know when it is

[61:39]mixed with either desire and anger it can amplify these forces okay

[61:47]so for example say you're hungry and you start looking at pictures

[61:52]of food noways it's almost like Instagram knows when you're hungry right

[61:58]you get these videos all with the you know delicious places to

[62:02]eat and things like that what happens is is that you have

[62:07]the desire to pull the benefit towards you which is hunger but

[62:11]then with the extra stimuli what happens is that your imagination also

[62:16]plays into that situation yeah and you can imagine having something really

[62:21]great you go to the same place that is advertised in the

[62:23]store and it ends up being not as good as you thought

[62:26]it would be or the same thing with anger if someone angers

[62:32]you many times if your thoughts after that were put into a

[62:36]Serial you could probably make a five episode series of the intricacy

[62:41]of the crime that you're about to carry out on that person

[62:45]right our imagination can multiply and take out of context all of

[62:52]these basic forces okay so imagination which is a multiplying force now

[62:57]these three forces are the forces of the nafs everything that we

[63:06]are motivated to do either in a good way or a bad

[63:11]way comes from these three it is good when it is consistent

[63:14]with our ethical religious responsibilities and it is not good when it

[63:19]oversteps those boundaries okay so desire is good but within certain limits

[63:24]ations when desire overwhelms that is when it becomes bad so for

[63:30]example say you have a desire to do well at work okay

[63:37]essentially that's not a bad thing that's a good thing but if

[63:40]you're doing well at work means that you will therefore put down

[63:47]or sabotage other people that's obviously out of the bounds okay same

[63:51]with anger your anger to protect your children for example example is

[63:56]a good thing but if protecting your children involves harming another child

[64:03]that would be a bad thing okay your imagination is important for

[64:08]your creativity but if your imagination takes you towards a sin it

[64:13]is obviously a bad thing and that is why these forces all

[64:16]need a balancing force and that is what the intellect is and

[64:21]that is the last thing to come into the domain of a

[64:24]human being and and it is something that comes in gradually the

[64:28]intellect doesn't come in perfected right at the beginning is something that

[64:32]comes in gradually and grows over time until a person reaches 40

[64:37]that's where the intellect matures okay so this balancing Force what is

[64:43]the what is the point of this force it is to put

[64:47]the other three in the correct balance okay so for the model

[64:52]of the Soul if you remember going back to the iceberg the

[64:56]NS that is in the top on the top of the iceberg

[64:59]to understand that we need to understand these three fundamental forces okay

[65:05]now sometimes what I do when I'm teaching these is I put

[65:08]scenarios give you a scenario and you think about how to label

[65:14]what's happening within your soul with these three uh with these three

[65:22]issues okay so one I would recommend is that in your day-to-day

[65:26]life as you're going through things keep these in mind keep your

[65:30]pulling force in mind pushing force in mind and multiplying force in

[65:35]mind and as you are as you are going through as you

[65:38]are thinking about and reflecting what has happened you can actually put

[65:41]labels on them you can say this is coming from desire this

[65:46]is coming from anger this is coming from imagination and then figure

[65:50]out how to use the intellect to rebalance all of those the

[65:54]simple example of a scenario one of the scenarios that I sometimes

[65:58]give is that you're called into the office at work and the

[66:02]manager tells you that there's going to be job Cuts that's it

[66:08]that's the scenario what goes through your mind where are the forces

[66:13]what are your motivations at that point all of those things you

[66:16]if you can label them and understand them you will understand how

[66:19]your NPS is working and then you'll understand what you have to

[66:25]do with your intellect now keep this keep this model in mind

[66:29]this is the first one I'm going to explain one more model

[66:32]and then what I'm going to do is I'm going to give

[66:36]you a explanation of the NS in the Quran and hopefully you'll

[66:38]be able to put these three models together and understand this first

[66:43]layer which is probably the most important layer to understand uh as

[66:47]it comes to a person's psyche your own psyche and other people's

[66:53]psyche because once you understand your own soul in the on the

[66:57]level of the NS you will also understand other people's Souls yeah

[67:02]if you remember with Al what he said is that if you

[67:07]understand the temperament of someone and you understand the situation you can

[67:10]actually predict what effects that is going to have on the person

[67:16]is the same thing with the soul if you understand the soul

[67:18]the way the soul works and you understand what situation is facing

[67:25]that person you will understand exactly what is going through the person's

[67:31]soul now the soul is not something that is a just a

[67:33]mental thing the soul is something that you feel entirely think about

[67:41]when you've been angry yes there might have been thoughts in your

[67:43]mind but usually you can't even concentrate on those thoughts right the

[67:47]thoughts are so mixed up yeah what is really happening is it's

[67:51]almost like your whole being is is angry yeah that's the way

[67:57]your soul is even with desire when you're hungry you might not

[68:00]be thinking about anything but your whole whole being is hungry right

[68:06]that's what your soul is so these are the these are the

[68:08]pulls in your soul they don't have to be verbal when you

[68:13]recognize desire you can recognize it as the pulling Force that's why

[68:17]I call it a force yeah and anger as a pushing force

[68:19]and then imagination as the multiplier there so this is model one

[68:25]model two I also hope you've heard of before in some way

[68:28]is again a model that is very much widespread in the Islamic

[68:32]intellectual tradition and it is inspired from the Holy Quran so these

[68:39]terms are taken from the Holy Quran but as I'll show you

[68:45]in just a minute I they might not have been as accurately

[68:47]reflected as the quranic discourse itself so let me explain it to

[68:50]you the first is called thear thear is the aspect of your

[68:59]soul that keeps pushing you to do things that are not right

[69:03]it is basically in the cartoons the devil on one side of

[69:11]you constantly pushing you telling you and uh commanding you to do

[69:16]things that are not right things that are not good for you

[69:19]yeah it doesn't have to always be sinning yeah it is basically

[69:24]that pull towards doing things that are not good for you morally

[69:31]and good for you generally okay that's the it doesn't leave you

[69:35]alone when you want to do something you want to do it

[69:39]yeah that's what the naar is the on the other hand is

[69:46]the blaming Soul so that's the aspect of your soul that is

[69:50]your conscience yeah so once you've done something or once you're intending

[69:55]to do something that is not right the will tell you don't

[69:58]do that yeah it's like the angel on your shoulder fighting with

[70:01]your devil these two are interlocked in the combat of the self

[70:09]yeah it's a combat because these two are always fighting the Amar

[70:16]and the Lama are always fighting okay but eventually one of them

[70:24]will win either the Amar will win or the Lama will win

[70:27]and when that happens there's no more fighting the soul is at

[70:33]rest yeah and that's the last one the now of course in

[70:38]the literature we don't want to end up at the Soul at

[70:42]rest in the Amara what we want to end up is that

[70:43]the Soul at rest with this with the Lama winning the blaming

[70:48]Soul winning so the blaming soul is seen as essentially good the

[70:52]Amar is seen almost as essentially bad and these two are in

[70:58]a perennial struggle until the wins again this is a very easy

[71:07]model to use we've all felt that tension within yeah we felt

[71:11]the want to do something and at the same time the awareness

[71:17]that that is not the right thing to do okay but it's

[71:19]always easier said than done to let the Lama win yeah the

[71:24]whole point of it is that it's a struggle that's what we

[71:26]that is what is meant by Jihad or struggle with the self

[71:30]it is to that perennial struggle is one that has to be

[71:33]won by uh the Lama but if we take a look at

[71:42]the NS in the Holy Quran we will see a slightly different

[71:45]picture emerging slightly different picture emerging much of what we've said already

[71:51]is does emerge from that same narrative but something just just slightly

[71:54]different I'm going to add in here so as we've said the

[71:59]soul this is just now looking at the Holy Quran the soul

[72:02]in the Holy Quran is the mental faculty that gives rise to

[72:08]your desires your cravings and your appetites okay when you look at

[72:14]the na in the Quran it is usually connected to the verb

[72:19]yeah to desire if you look at the DU kumal we recited

[72:23]right now yeah Shan was able to lead me the wrong way

[72:31]because of the desires yes so the NS in the Quran is

[72:39]connected to desire when Allah subhana talks to the bani is he

[72:44]blames them that whenever a message whenever a messenger was was sent

[72:47]to them or came to them with what their souls did not

[72:53]desire they rejected them yeah yeah what against what your soul is

[72:58]Desiring okay you will also see in the Holy Quran that the

[73:04]na or the plural of Na is used with another verb which

[73:09]is is is again is one to indicate towards desire uh you

[73:13]know when you ask what you want to eat for dinner yeah

[73:16]you ask them what from the same verb here okay now the

[73:22]interesting thing is that human being never get rid of the NS

[73:26]we never get rid of Cravings soul soul Cravings in fact the

[73:34]Hereafter only makes sense if we still have enough okay so the

[73:39]purpose is definitely not to suppress our NS so that we don't

[73:42]feel it yeah that actually gives us an inhuman experience yeah makes

[73:49]us like a robot why do we know that the soul remains

[73:53]off to death is because we can't enjoy anything without a soul

[73:57]yeah if we have nothing to enjoy then we won't enjoy heaven

[74:00]and if we don't want anything then we won't feel any suffering

[74:04]in hell as well so we definitely retain this Soul it's not

[74:09]something bad the NS here are that I'm talking about okay but

[74:17]before we die yeah it is the it is the it is

[74:23]the thing the appetitive promptings that are put there of the NS

[74:26]can lead us to violate the moral principles that we're supposed to

[74:30]have and in fact can lead us to uh worshiping other than

[74:37]Allah as well so if we look uh at the story of

[74:40]Canan Canan Canan Abel or the biblical Canan Abel we have yeah

[74:50]so he Soul made it nice for him or he followed the

[74:57]prompting of his soul to uh kill his brother another verb that

[75:04]is used is also yeah means means to make seem fairing so

[75:08]again here the soul it prompts us to violate and it also

[75:14]makes it seem fairing make it seem good another one like could

[75:19]put here in the slide is waswasa the soul Whispers to you

[75:24]yeah and again whispering and to make seem fairing to you are

[75:29]two verbs that are also used in terms of the devil as

[75:34]well okay so Shan the place where Shayan can breach is the

[75:38]Naps that is the area that it can breach and that is

[75:42]why it is the primary breach in human psychology where Shan carries

[75:46]out his work the soul in the Holy Quran is associated with

[75:53]Envy greed and arrogance and gratuitous complaining now complaining if you remember

[76:02]and blaming is what I said the was in the Holy Quran

[76:05]we don't have an explanation of what the does Allah subh tala

[76:11]only swears by it okay so gratuitous blaming is basically extra blaming

[76:20]the soul keeps blaming you keeps undermining you keeps telling you you're

[76:28]not good enough keeps keeps working on your insecurities yeah it is

[76:35]constantly blaming you not only in a good way but also in

[76:38]a bad way as well okay this is something that emerges from

[76:43]uh a quranic discussion about the Lama so the Lama like I

[76:47]said in the tradition has been seen primarily just as a good

[76:52]thing okay but blaming is is not always good sometimes when blaming

[76:55]is in the right place it's good and if it results in

[76:58]Repentance it's good yeah so even the vision of the NS in

[77:04]the Quran if it was resulting in Repentance is good but if

[77:07]it's going to cause anxiousness and other things like that and doubt

[77:12]then it can be seen slightly differently and this is why a

[77:16]group um and if I'm correct in Remembering exact context of this

[77:24]I think this is in the battle uh yeah I'm pretty sure

[77:29]cuz it's inah Al Imran as well so if you can see

[77:34]here their souls rendered them anxious yeah is their NS that rendered

[77:38]them anxious made them anxious and caused them to make untrue conjectures

[77:42]about God yeah so because they were anxious and the Soul did

[77:46]this to them yeah they then uh made untrue conjectures about God

[77:53]as you can see here their souls they became occupied if you

[78:02]like with their souls so this is why the soul is then

[78:08]described as perpetually commanded towards evil this is why it's called the

[78:13]because it doesn't leave you alone it's going to be blaming you

[78:17]it's going to be prompting you to do the wrong things and

[78:19]so on and so forth it is the primary breach of course

[78:24]like I said there are situations where that the soul is good

[78:28]and that is for example if it is linked with repentance so

[78:33]that blaming when it comes with repentance as well so therefore we

[78:35]are not supposed to get rid of our souls they will continually

[78:42]affect us and so what the key thing for someone or the

[78:50]key value that someone has to attain is that when there is

[78:53]a conflict between the soul and a higher ranking moral principle like

[78:57]for example the worship of Allah orul or something like this then

[79:05]we should not allow the unsettled nature of the soul to overcome

[79:09]us yeah we have to keep the soul in check that is

[79:16]the function yeah it's not to get rid of the soul but

[79:18]to use the other faculties and next time like I said we

[79:22]talk about the intellect and we use those other faculties to overcome

[79:26]and to control the soul that's what the purpose is so inshallah

[79:30]I hope you found that of some benefit um and I think

[79:36]we've got question answers now Alum brother you mentioned the very good

[80:18]s subject now but we we have to stop you somehow on

[80:23]on K and as well when God he created the human being

[80:31]and he bring with him the Karim so we like to ask

[80:37]you to teach the the new generation what's thein is thank you

[80:42]thank you very much uh my understanding of aarin is that everybody

[80:49]is assigned is someone who's very close to you okay okay but

[80:55]this in particular is a negative influence okay so everyone is assigned

[81:00]with that negative influence and so a person has to be careful

[81:04]cuz like I said there's a part of us that is our

[81:09]NS and the NS also is open to a kind of whispering

[81:14]and that is what the is involved with yeah that kind of

[81:19]external force that uh affects the human being in a negative way

[81:24]that's what the is was that clear yeahum um I found interesting

[81:37]the way you've um describe the different types of naps so basically

[81:41]from my understanding maybe it's a traditional way as you said and

[81:45]that's been changed but that it's different levels so it's Tau with

[81:51]you get better you get to the Lama because starting to kind

[81:55]of like blame you for doing the wrong and tell you you

[81:57]should stick to the right and then you get to the M

[82:01]for so for you saying that M can actually be also in

[82:05]the wrong M or doing the but still M so that's a

[82:09]very interesting thing can you please like explain a bit more because

[82:14]like in the Quran as well with a with a Surah it

[82:18]says so it was also in a positive way as So yeah

[82:23]thank you for the question yeah like I was saying usually in

[82:29]the tradition the the important thing is like you say to to

[82:33]win the battle between thear and the and end up at the

[82:36]yeah that's for sure so it's it's not challenging that in any

[82:41]way but if they so means the soul that is at rest

[82:48]okay so the soul that is at rest when it is at

[82:51]rest it could either be at rest in a positive state or

[82:55]at rest in a negative state so if you look at some

[82:57]criminals for example they will commit heus acts and be very calm

[83:05]about that there's no conflict in their soul at all about that

[83:08]the other thing about the is that like I said to you

[83:14]this model of the it is inspired by quranic terminology but there

[83:18]is discussion so for example there's discussion when it comes into to

[83:24]accuracy so for example whether it is something that is achievable before

[83:31]death or after because is that before death or is this now

[83:37]after death so that model is inspired by it rather than uh

[83:46]they so basically someone doing something bad again wouldn't they just go

[83:57]back to rather than getting to the stage I read a book

[84:02]about this specific topic one time and that was talking about level

[84:06]so when you improve you get that yeah absolutely so okay so

[84:13]you fall back to the Amar yeah like that yeah so if

[84:25]you like the lowest level of Amar it's a type of complete

[84:32]opposite of the good M yeah yeahum um you know when you

[84:43]spoke about the intellect being perfected at 40 could you please elaborate

[84:47]on that and does that mean that the ne becomes complete at

[84:52]age 40 yeah okay so thank you for the question uh the

[84:56]the intellect if I remember correctly in our traditions and up comes

[85:01]to 40 and this is also in a quranic verse I think

[85:12]it's so the age 40 is seen as a age of in

[85:17]of maturity yeah whether whether if you like the intellect is fully

[85:24]uh complete but that of course doesn't mean that the intellect is

[85:28]not uh present before that it is on a journey and it

[85:31]comes to that completion and it also doesn't mean that at 40

[85:35]everything's over as well and the intellect is complete right it it

[85:39]means that the natural growth of the intellect reaches the maturity at

[85:43]about a figurative age of 40 yeah my question is um why

[86:06]do some people get tested more than others and why do people

[86:08]go more than hardship than others and have it more they have

[86:13]it more easily that's a very good question uh I think Allah

[86:19]subhana wa ta'ala tests us all in different ways it there are

[86:24]different tests for different people and Allah subhana wa ta'ala will only

[86:28]test a person in a way that is good for them so

[86:32]I'll give you an example if uh let's say you're born into

[86:40]a very rich family and you don't even have to work most

[86:42]of us would not look at that as a test that seems

[86:46]great but that itself is a test and many people will fail

[86:52]to do the right thing in life if they have such a

[86:54]good situation yeah conversely maybe on the other hand a very difficult

[87:03]lifestyle would be difficult for other people to find Allah in that

[87:08]situation and Circumstance so because Allah subhana wa taala is aware of

[87:13]our different characteristics and temperaments he gives us different tests but that

[87:16]doesn't mean that he also judges us the same way so for

[87:22]example if someone is going through a very a difficulty and they're

[87:28]successful 1% yeah 1% successful it may be better than someone who's

[87:33]going through an easier circumstance and their success is 50% Allah doesn't

[87:39]always judge things the way we do yeah sometimes a person will

[87:42]go through a life of lots of difficulties and just the small

[87:48]things they did was enough because Allah didn't give them other tests

[87:51]except for that right just gave them that kind of test so

[87:54]the thing is to always remember when we think about tests is

[88:00]that Allah is like a parent who has the good outcome for

[88:03]his child in mind yeah he will give them what is right

[88:09]for that child right and with the in with the intention I'm

[88:12]using just normal terms with the intention of them succeeding yeah with

[88:18]the intention of them succeeding rather than with the intention to push

[88:22]them down Allah doesn't want to destroy us with tests he wants

[88:25]us to succeed with the tests that's why everyone has different things

[88:29]Allah just tests Us in different ways CU we're all different individuals

[88:34]and what is expected from us is different yeah alayum you said

[88:44]that uh Allah subhana wa tala doesn't have a spirit so what

[88:50]does the Ayah mean when it says so the yah here is

[88:58]what we call okay my okay now because we know Allah doesn't

[89:02]have a r because he's not Body and Soul yeah we know

[89:07]he doesn't have a r we understand that this y Andis is

[89:09]metaphorical it's not literal it's not saying my soul because I have

[89:16]a soul and this is mine just like when we have yeah

[89:21]yeah so again Allah says to ibraim cleanse my house Allah doesn't

[89:29]have house yeah but why does he say cleanse my house that

[89:36]is metaphorical yeah metaphorical for what if I say it's it's if

[89:41]Allah attributes something to himself yeah it means that whatever that thing

[89:45]is is great because Allah is great yeah so the here is

[89:51]not saying his soul it's saying the Great Soul if you want

[89:54]to put it that way is that clear um so I have

[90:04]a question if someone were to stray away from the dean what

[90:07]would your personal advice be for them to improve their relationship with

[90:13]Allah subhana tala um I think that if a person who has

[90:21]like you say straight away from the dean in themselves wants to

[90:26]come back to Allah subhana wa ta'ala then they should do the

[90:30]most natural thing that comes to them because the honest truth is

[90:36]is that when I look at the way Allah subhana wa tal

[90:38]has created the universe and created the human being and the way

[90:43]he has put his religion is that the religion of Islam is

[90:47]a very natural and soft religion what comes to the the moment

[90:53]in that to comes to that person in that moment in terms

[90:58]of the realization and the internal kind of pull and understanding of

[91:05]what Allah subhana wa ta'ala is if they do what is natural

[91:07]for them so for example if they feel like praying to Allah

[91:12]subhana wa taala if they feel like calling out to Allah subhana

[91:14]wa taala if they do these things in the beginning that is

[91:20]what will act as an anchor for them and once theyve once

[91:22]once they've fulfilled that then they should seek knowledge they should seek

[91:28]knowledge to understand how Allah wants them to worship him yeah I

[91:32]find also when this does happen and it happens to many individuals

[91:38]they go all the way one way and then they come all

[91:40]the way back I find that to be a very beautiful Journey

[91:44]because once a person has looked over the edge and realize they

[91:47]don't want what's on the other side of that and return back

[91:52]they will never go back to that edge again um would just

[92:00]end with the last question yeah thank you uh so basically um

[92:04]any advice you give to someone who's starting like a western Psychotherapy

[92:09]training Journey so how to link it back to Islam or where

[92:14]things maybe to stoper or things to be aware of yeah I

[92:20]I I generally think that uh degrees in Psy ology and Psychotherapy

[92:24]are excellent and what I think is that a person should be

[92:27]well read so if your field is in Islamic psychology or Psychotherapy

[92:34]it's good to have a finger in what is being spoken about

[92:36]in an Islamic context and I think what you'll find is a

[92:40]lot of synergy lots of things are going to help from the

[92:42]secular training and lots of things are going to help from the

[92:45]Islamic perspective on it and maybe it's like I said in the

[92:50]in the first lecture as well Islamic psychology is developed Ving and

[92:52]at the same time psychology is developing so as these two Fields

[92:56]continue to develop there's a lot of space for a lot of

[93:01]creativity in fact like this framework that I showed you here is

[93:04]only like 2023 2022 2023 so it's very very early stages Muhammad

[93:20]Muhammad thank you so much sh a beautiful lecture there will be

[93:28]food handed out at the exit um and inshallah may Allah accept

[93:31]our and we'll see you again next week inshallah

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