Why They Chose War: American Activist’s Unfiltered Talks Challenge Western Narratives

7 المشاهدات· 24/08/31

TMJ News Network
مشتركين

في الأخبار

American Writer and Activist Hannah Smith shares her transformative journey across the globe, speaking with combantants and ex-fighters about their motivations and experiences with conflict and war. Her encounters challenged conventional Western narratives, offering new perspectives on global conflict by re-evaluating how people perceive "good" and "bad" sides in news coverage. SUPPORT TMJ News: https://www.gofundme.com/f/tmjnews VISIT TMJ's homepage: https://www.tmj.news FOLLOW TMJ News: TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@tmjnewsnetwork Instagram: https://instagram.com/tmjnewsnetwork Facebook: https://facebook.com/tmjnewsnetwork Twitter: https://twitter.com/tmjnewsnetwork

أظهر المزيد

Transcript

[0:00]I mean for somebody who fought in Hezbollah to trust an American

[0:04]girl with his story is a huge deal what is your real

[0:06]agenda with doing all of this you know content creation and speaking

[0:12]about Palestine which is not the most American issue I do have

[0:16]an agenda I'm not being paid by Iran or Hamas one group

[0:21]is using the label of democracy and freeing Muslim women from the

[0:25]shackles of sharia law there's a very specific and concerted effort to

[0:29]keep the population the is population in a state of victimization Mandela

[0:32]himself was on a terror watch list until 2008 and this is

[0:36]a man who now we as Americans celebrate every year when there

[0:42]is a consistent and continued assault on Dignity and on rights it

[0:45]does create a very fertile soil for recruitment into armed grows anyone

[0:49]really can be either a victim or a liberator or a terrorist

[0:54]this is not the world that I want to raise my future

[0:56]kids in [Music] salamu alikum and welcome to another episode on the

[1:10]TMJ podcast today we have yet another special guest Hannah Smith is

[1:14]a content creator activist and writer her passion for storytelling has led

[1:19]her all around the world from countries like Dr Congo to Ireland

[1:23]Iraq and Colombia today she's a fierce advocate for Collective Liberation and

[1:29]is currently writing a book on the origin of harm and how

[1:31]to create lasting positive change thank you so much Hannah for being

[1:37]with me today I really appreciate you giving us your time and

[1:39]I'm really excited to have this conversation with you as someone whose

[1:42]platform has recently been very heavy on Palestine content and that's kind

[1:47]of the point that I really would like to start this conversation

[1:49]with you about is many Western audiences just became introduced to what

[1:55]is really going on in Palestine from October 7th so essentially prior

[1:59]to that many Americans were ignorant to what was actually going on

[2:02]in that region why do you think that is so I think

[2:07]that there's a few layers to this and thank you so much

[2:09]for having me on Sarah I'm really excited for this conversation um

[2:11]so I do think that there are some layers to this I

[2:15]think some people could sort of argue that a lot of people

[2:18]in the US and I can kind of speak specifically about the

[2:21]us as someone who was born and raised here um not necessarily

[2:25]on all Western audiences but um a lot of people in the

[2:28]US have a bit of apathy when it comes to global history

[2:32]and kind of the root causes of these conflicts and so some

[2:35]could argue that that is why there's a lot of ignorance surrounding

[2:38]the nakba and the Decades of Oppression and Justice against Palestinians but

[2:45]I don't think that that paints the full story and and I

[2:47]say that because a lot of Americans are aware of the founding

[2:50]of Israel they are aware of the Israeli perspective and so I

[2:56]think that there has been a very specific and well-backed effort effort

[3:00]both by the US government and by the Israeli government to influence

[3:04]the public opinions of just regular everyday Americans and really make sure

[3:10]that the that there's an abundance of information from the official Israeli

[3:14]perspective and that it will drown out the information from the Palestinian

[3:18]perspective and so I think maybe the apathy explains a small part

[3:22]but I do think that there has been an effort and especially

[3:26]because of the US support for Israel we don't want to be

[3:29]um you know learning about things that are going to make us

[3:33]maybe feel a little bit guilty until it's so in our face

[3:38]and so I think that's somewhat explains and I I think it's

[3:40]interesting that you say that one of the things that actually I'm

[3:41]sure youw came out uh throughout the past nine months is for

[3:46]example there was a leaked New York Times memo um explaining that

[3:50]their journalists should avoid using certain words like genocide or ethnic cleansing

[3:55]very deliberate limitation of words that really do paint the reality of

[3:59]what's happening there when you have a journalistic uh Integrity principle in

[4:03]place for these Top Shot new news organizations like New York Times

[4:07]it's kind of surprising to see them come out and say you

[4:10]guys should consciously be avoiding these words when we see essentially those

[4:15]same level of charged words being used for conflicts like Ukraine or

[4:19]conflicts that um it would benefit the US to be painting it

[4:21]in a very specific way how much do you think that Americans

[4:27]really do trust their media when it comes to coverage of international

[4:31]event specifically with Palestine do you think that over the years Americans

[4:35]have retained that trust in the media have they accepted these media

[4:38]narratives that they're being fed or do you think that is kind

[4:42]of Shifting so I definitely think it's shifting and I think this

[4:46]is a really good question the memo from The New York Times

[4:48]was obviously very alarming but not surprising as we saw so much

[4:54]of their reporting on what's happening in Palestine being very sanitized using

[4:58]a lot of passive voice and even just outr you're responsible um

[5:02]so that it's alarming but not surprising considering how they have been

[5:07]um and I know journalists who have freelance for the New York

[5:10]Times and others who feel they feel censored and it's um it's

[5:17]it's very alarming I think before all of this I think the

[5:20]far right and the far left had a lot of distrust in

[5:24]mainstream media and then I think that they were kind of seen

[5:26]as being on the fringes of being like we don't trust the

[5:30]media like they almost seemed like conspiracy theorists but obviously we know

[5:33]like the US coverage of the invasion the US media coverage of

[5:36]the invasion of Iraq was very irresponsible very one-sided and that came

[5:40]out later but we haven't really learned from that and then I

[5:43]think because so many people in the US are on social media

[5:48]they're on Tik Tok and they're on Instagram they're opening their phones

[5:51]and they're seeing these Horrors vide videotapes of just horrific massacres and

[5:57]children's bodies and then they're going to go on the New York

[6:01]Times website or on CNN and they're going to see a narrative

[6:05]that is just completely different from what they're witnessing on their screens

[6:09]and so because of that this distrust in the media is no

[6:12]longer a fringe concept it's now become very clear the media like

[6:17]a lot of mainstream media companies have exposed themselves they've exposed their

[6:19]double standard um and so I think that that is Shifting I

[6:25]think it should continue to shift that we should continue to question

[6:29]and I think this sort of democratization of news and media and

[6:33]information it used to be sort of worrisome because you could have

[6:38]a lot of fake news within that but now it has become

[6:40]sort of a mode for people to be able to hold their

[6:45]news Publications or agencies responsible and accountable do you think that this

[6:49]is divided on party lines so I know we typically I mean

[6:52]one thing that we have seen a lot of is a lot

[6:55]of Democrats have been showing support for Palestinians in recent months we

[7:00]generally don't expect that as much from Republicans but there still have

[7:04]been a lot of Republicans as well who have essentially questioned uh

[7:07]the idea of for example why is the US in terms of

[7:12]foreign policy helping you know another entity when we have our own

[7:16]troops to support everything that we're spending abroad could be spent on

[7:19]improving Americans lives domestically but then again we still see you know

[7:24]Outlets like CNN doing a really dirty job of you know you

[7:29]for example you have had Sarah Sidner who came out and made

[7:33]a completely unbacked claim on live television or even New York Times

[7:37]even the kind of Publications that are generally associated with being either

[7:39]toward the middle or toward the left are still showing these same

[7:45]underlying ideology so do you think that what you're explaining the trend

[7:48]is more so divided on party lines or do you think it's

[7:50]a general Trend that you're seeing within American society I think it's

[7:55]a general Trend certainly the people on the left I believe are

[7:59]more supportive of pal and Palestinian Liberation and then maybe on the

[8:03]right you do have an and I I just want to like

[8:07]call this out because this does happen and there's people that are

[8:09]giving the movement a bad name and it's really these sort of

[8:11]like white nationalists who come in and tried to co-opt the cause

[8:16]um and and you know say that they're for for Palestine but

[8:19]it doesn't come across very genuine and I think those people have

[8:23]been called out and are continued to call out being called out

[8:24]in this movement and I think that that's important but then I

[8:27]do think there's people on the right um like even family members

[8:31]of mine who've always voted Republican except for in the past um

[8:34]couple elections because of trump but people on the right who have

[8:37]just sort of a general distrust in their government they don't want

[8:42]a large government that is highly engaged with the world and they

[8:45]certainly don't want their government doing things that are going to make

[8:49]uh US citizens at home and abroad less safe and they can

[8:53]they can make that argument from that perspective um and then there's

[8:56]also people on the right who are for Palestinian Liberation so I

[8:59]think this kind of this does attract people on on both sides

[9:04]of the aisle people who care about human rights people who want

[9:07]to have a country that cares about its own citizens that we

[9:11]are there's a lot of Americans who are struggling right now and

[9:15]we're sending so much money abroad to weapons that are killing people

[9:17]to we and also just to the Israeli government that is then

[9:21]sending money back to try to influence our own politicians and that

[9:26]was just proven so I think that there's that suspicion is on

[9:29]both sides obviously I think that the the major weight behind the

[9:33]movement is coming from the left though right and I'm kind of

[9:37]Shifting over one of the reasons that I really wanted to interview

[9:40]you is because you also have a kind of Rich background in

[9:43]you know having these conversations as a content creator but also as

[9:48]a writer and someone who has traveled to many different countries to

[9:52]speak with people who can really give an Insider look into What

[9:55]conflict really is and what the motivations behind different kinds of conflict

[9:59]can be you had a project that you were involved with called

[10:03]why we fight and that was really interesting to me I saw

[10:05]some videos that you made about it but can you explain a

[10:09]little bit more about what that project was and you know you

[10:11]did interviews from former combatants in a lot of different areas in

[10:14]Ireland uh Lebanon Iraq Colombia can you tell us some of the

[10:19]major findings that you know kind of stood out to you when

[10:21]you were talking to these people yeah absolutely thank you for asking

[10:24]that question I was inspired to start Why We Fight uh when

[10:30]I went to Dr are Congo and it really helped illuminate that

[10:34]this sort of good guy bad guy narrative that a lot of

[10:40]Western observers were bringing to things was unhelpful and a lot of

[10:43]the root causes of why people were joining these armed groups was

[10:46]not being discussed so I didn't start why we fight in the

[10:51]DRC but that was the inspiration for it so it started really

[10:53]in Lebanon there was so much Western reporting on Lebanon at the

[10:56]time and I actually went to Beirut to become a freance journalist

[11:01]and I was like I you know I feel like there's a

[11:03]lot of people who are reporting on Lebanon but not talking about

[11:07]these even the Deep history and some of the reporting was irresponsible

[11:11]and shallow and I was like you know what I just want

[11:13]to do what I feel like I can do well and that's

[11:16]talk to individuals and really talk to people who had fought or

[11:22]are continuing to fight and learn their personal uh reasons and their

[11:24]motivations so why we fight started in Lebanon and it took me

[11:29]all over the world I went to Northern Ireland I went to

[11:31]Iraq I went to Colombia I went to Bosnia and Herzegovina and

[11:36]I really started to see this the common threads between all of

[11:40]these different stories and why we fight culminated in a gallery experience

[11:43]and a lot of people have asked me like can you put

[11:47]this online and when I was conducting these interviews I was not

[11:50]I didn't have the following that I have today and I don't

[11:52]necessarily feel that it would be safe to put some of these

[11:56]interviews online it could put people at risk but it culminated in

[11:58]this Gallery experience and the gallery went like this you had the

[12:01]portrait or the photo of the person who fought and then you

[12:06]have their personal motivation for taking of arms and all identifying information

[12:11]was redacted from that personal narrative and so you had to look

[12:15]these people in the eye and hear their story without knowing if

[12:18]this was from a group you agreed with or didn't agree with

[12:22]and a lot of people couldn't tell who who the people were

[12:25]from or what groups these people yeah yeah and I and I

[12:30]created this for a a audience in the US because I think

[12:32]we have such an influence on the rest of the world and

[12:36]our voters have such a lack of understanding of why people are

[12:39]taking up arms in these conflicts that the US is directly involved

[12:41]with and if we could kind of sit back and say oh

[12:46]this person started fighting for the same reasons that I mean I

[12:49]would start fighting too there was no interview that I did that

[12:54]I couldn't confidently say I wouldn't do the same thing if I

[12:56]were in their shoes and I think a lot of people who

[13:00]were viewers in this gallery felt the same so why we fight

[13:02]was such a journey for me it was really kind of launched

[13:05]me into this space of understanding what the root causes of some

[13:10]of these conflicts and systemic harm depression are and why so many

[13:14]of our efforts to create peace um fail honestly right and I

[13:18]think this is really interesting that you said I actually did not

[13:21]know that the kind of method you used was not identifying these

[13:24]people and having you know the people who attend the gallery really

[13:28]see if they can even figure out where this is coming from

[13:31]that's actually very interesting because what you did essentially from a uh

[13:35]US Government perspective would be considered dangerous and one of the reasons

[13:41]for that is you know there's this huge insistence that we want

[13:43]to be the ones to tell you the narratives about who is

[13:45]the good guy and who's the bad guy and if now you're

[13:48]the one going and speaking to these people that would be questionable

[13:52]because now you're going and speaking to the bad guys that we

[13:55]don't want you to be talking to we don't we don't want

[13:58]you to be hearing their stories one of your videos was actually

[14:00]speaking about uh Hezbollah in Lebanon and you were talking about how

[14:06]you spoke to a I think ex fighter and that was really

[14:08]interesting for me because obviously you have very black and white narratives

[14:11]that are coming out of the media from here and now you

[14:15]have someone who's saying I went and this person instead of telling

[14:18]me their motivations they went and showed me how do you think

[14:21]that changed your perspective on just conflict and how people kind of

[14:28]rise up to conflict in different areas I think it helped me

[14:34]understand that the whole idea of like when we think about groups

[14:37]like Hezbollah you could say do I think that what they do

[14:42]is completely Justified do I fully agree with them those are not

[14:45]the necessary questions and discussions that we could be having and I

[14:49]believe that we should be having it helps me realize that the

[14:54]people who join groups do so for specific reasons and as long

[14:57]as those reasons exist people are more than than likely going to

[15:00]join those groups and so whether or not we agree with the

[15:06]group's Manifesto doesn't actually matter what matters is having even the empathy

[15:10]and the care to say oh yeah I can see why you

[15:15]would do that and until we are addressing the reasons that you

[15:19]decided to to join this group and for him it was it

[15:24]was numerous things and he fought in 2006 um but it was

[15:26]really like the Kor Massacre it was it was air strikes is

[15:29]is air strikes on South Lebanon that killed a lot of civilians

[15:32]that killed people who were already displaced and the the idea of

[15:37]saying this this group is not going to be allowed in my

[15:39]country I think that that's something that a lot of people can

[15:41]empathize with and people have such a hard time saying oh I

[15:47]can understand this while also saying like I don't have to fully

[15:50]agree with everything and and that's that's the Nuance that I think

[15:55]is necessary in the in these conversations and that I learned from

[15:59]that and I was very honored to have access to a lot

[16:03]of these people's stories I mean for somebody who fought in Hezbollah

[16:07]to trust an American girl with his story is a huge deal

[16:10]and it's because people realize that that the world didn't know why

[16:14]and they wanted the world to know why so they were willing

[16:17]to say okay I'm going to take a risk and I'm going

[16:21]to talk to this person 100% yeah and I think uh the

[16:23]image that you just described is kind of um people would assume

[16:26]for it to be very similar to this idea of like the

[16:30]perfect example of a clash of civilizations and I think that's really

[16:33]that's a very strong image and the reason I say that is

[16:37]because you mentioned for example agreeing or not agreeing with a certain

[16:41]group's Manifesto one of the things that we rarely ever stop to

[16:44]question is for example a lot of the things that our government

[16:47]and our military has done abroad um might not have an exact

[16:50]Manifesto but if you look at what they're doing and the kind

[16:57]of footprints that they're leaving and the um Power vacuums that they're

[17:00]leaving in certain areas if you were to look at that from

[17:02]the same level of scrutiny that a lot of Western audiences will

[17:07]look at other groups abroad it's it's essentially the same thing if

[17:11]not worse it's saying you know you have an aggressor who is

[17:16]going to countries abroad in the name of democracy and that's I

[17:18]guess the thing that makes the difference is one group is using

[17:21]the label of democracy and Liberation and freeing for example Muslim women

[17:26]in Iraq or Afghanistan from the shackles of Sharia law that becomes

[17:31]their big motto versus another group that you know has a different

[17:37]Manifesto but when you go and talk to them essentially what they're

[17:40]doing is very similar to the same ideals of protecting Homeland and

[17:44]family and everything sacred to any person moving on to the next

[17:47]question this is kind of the more I guess you know the

[17:52]typical do you support Hamas question that uh Pi lives to ask

[17:55]his guests but the reason uh the Hamas topic was important to

[17:59]me me is because you have interviewed and spoken to a lot

[18:03]of combatants and um many people consider Hamas to be the same

[18:06]kind of theme of resistance Fighters and people who are essentially fighting

[18:12]for their own people and for the dignity and for the liberation

[18:16]of the Palestinians would you say that for them based on what

[18:19]you've seen you would say they also qualify as the same kind

[18:23]of trend of um you know being a natural consequence of the

[18:26]trauma and the Decades of aggression that palestin have been experiencing and

[18:30]if you were to speak to a combatant from their side as

[18:34]well do you think you would receive a similar story to the

[18:37]many combatants you've spoken to previously yeah I definitely think that and

[18:42]I tried always to focus on not leaders in armed groups but

[18:47]just the sort of regular folks who join and I think if

[18:50]I if I were to speak with someone from Hamas and about

[18:55]their personal motivations for taking up FS I think if I put

[18:58]that their photo in their story alongside all of these others I

[19:00]don't think people would be able to pick them out I think

[19:05]people might have in their mind their idea of what um you

[19:07]know and I don't use this word but it's thrown around a

[19:11]lot like a terrorist would think and do and it's just it's

[19:13]really not helpful and I genuinely don't think people would be able

[19:18]to say oh that's Hamas versus this is you know a group

[19:21]that the US government has supported I think that the when there

[19:27]is a consistent and continued assault on dignity and on rights it

[19:31]does create a very fertile soil for recruitment into armed groups and

[19:35]so that it's I don't want to say that it's inevitable because

[19:39]I think it's really important to honor and respect agency of all

[19:44]people and everyone decides what they do but it's it's highly likely

[19:48]and so the question of supporting or not supporting again is like

[19:52]this is just what's going to happen and it's to want to

[19:58]defend your people to want to defend your land to want to

[20:01]sort of take back what was what was taken from you I

[20:05]think is a very natural human response and yeah I think if

[20:09]I were to interview someone from homas and I don't support again

[20:12]it's not an issue of I guess personally like for me because

[20:15]of my interviews I've come to believe in non-violence as the most

[20:18]effective way forward but that is like my personal beliefs that is

[20:25]my personal like how I would feel is moral for me in

[20:27]a situation but do I have any right to say what someone

[20:31]else should do in their situation do I have any right to

[20:35]say if you've felt if you've dealt with you know Decades of

[20:37]Oppression that you should think a certain way or act a certain

[20:39]way I don't feel that that is my place to say it

[20:44]and so I think that that the the understanding of Hamas as

[20:51]a very kind of natural response to Decades of Oppression is going

[20:56]to be an effective way to view and see them in a

[21:00]and a more productive way to to create a path towards true

[21:04]peace and and Justice and as as you were speaking I thought

[21:08]about this but I think it's interesting you mentioned how when you

[21:11]speak to combatants you don't specifically identify them and if you were

[21:14]to show those same words and their stories to an American audience

[21:16]they there's a chance that they might actually relate to it do

[21:19]you think you could say the same if you were to interview

[21:23]let's say a member of the Israeli military and or someone not

[21:26]even military just an average Israeli civilian I think that and I

[21:33]just actually spoke with an ex Israeli uh Soldier a couple days

[21:38]ago so they what they shared was very enlightening for me as

[21:42]well of there has been decades and generations of indoctrination into the

[21:47]idea that if you are not consistently fighting an enemy that you

[21:52]will be eradicated and that from from their experience and from other

[21:55]experiences that I have heard is very sort of critical to the

[22:02]Israeli establishment to um Israeli society and so how do you consistently

[22:10]recruit people to to fight and oppress others I think you have

[22:12]to have some of these ingredients you have to have fear you

[22:14]have to have a sense of victimization it's it's going to be

[22:18]a very different victimization than I feel like the Palestinians have experienced

[22:22]but it's still exists nonetheless and so I think that there is

[22:26]a space I don't necessarily think all iof soldiers I think that

[22:29]there's a lot of people who you would be like immediately you

[22:33]would spot them for who they are whatever but if you took

[22:36]all the identifying information and you adapted it I don't I don't

[22:39]confidently know that you would be able to to pick them out

[22:44]of the group either which is unfortunate and it doesn't this does

[22:48]not at all justify this but I think that there's a very

[22:52]specific and concerted effort to make keep the population the Israeli population

[22:57]in a state of victimization and fear so that they can recruit

[23:02]and justify what they're doing but it's a very different I think

[23:05]it's a very different approach that's needed to Israeli Society to create

[23:09]peace than it would be to Palestinian societies yeah and and the

[23:13]reason I asked that is because again when we're talking about especially

[23:16]with the issue of Israel and Palestine since that's one of the

[23:21]most um I would say contentious issues in the current Global discussion

[23:25]on just the Enemy versus the Liberator I think it's really important

[23:30]because essentially it's become a battle of narratives at this point like

[23:35]when we look at social media you have interviews coming out from

[23:38]the Israeli side saying oh we are the victims we um have

[23:43]been the victims of terrorism for so long now we're just trying

[23:45]to have a safe space to live and then you go talk

[23:48]to the Palestinian side and they're saying you know this was our

[23:51]land and essentially it was just taken from us with with just

[23:53]just like that and essentially the whole world conspired and all the

[23:58]super superpowers cons inspired to make this happen and it's as if

[24:02]we just never existed so I think in in this battle of

[24:04]narratives it's really easy to say um you know I find that

[24:10]one side what they're saying is right and I think you're right

[24:12]a lot of Israelis I would actually say um I would say

[24:17]they have been brainwashed into thinking that they really are the victims

[24:21]in a situation where you know we just came from you know

[24:23]Europe we came and we settled here we just want a home

[24:27]I think it's completely natural for any human being to want a

[24:30]safe home but the question comes you know under what circumstances have

[24:34]your people settled in a land who was there before there are

[24:38]a lot of these questions that unfortunately in the context were given

[24:42]in the media they're absent and I think in the absent of

[24:44]that context anyone really can be either a victim or a liberator

[24:50]or a terrorist or anything so you can paint it either way

[24:53]and I think this this is really important because we've seen this

[24:55]on this side with other we've seen it with South Africa for

[25:00]example you've also spoken about South Africa very frequently in 1986 I

[25:03]think it was the Reagan Administration they actually condemned Mandela's ANC uh

[25:11]political group as terrorist Mandela himself was on a terror watch list

[25:16]until 2008 and this is a man who now we as Americans

[25:18]celebrate every year we talk about how amazing the you know struggle

[25:25]for resisting apartheid in South Africa was whereas if we were to

[25:29]backtrack to those those same days the status quo and the government

[25:31]and everyone with the power in our country was viewing them as

[25:34]terrorists and now the question becomes is that going to also become

[25:39]the case in a few years with Palestine what do you think

[25:43]about that I think the term terrorist is such a weapon isn't

[25:47]it like just to see to see it being used it's almost

[25:52]like the word the word communist during the Red Scare where it

[25:55]was just a way to shut someone down to shut someone up

[26:00]and such an unhelpful term and then also used so unequally because

[26:03]we will use it against groups but we won't use it against

[26:06]governments and you know some of the greatest acts of Terror I

[26:10]mean I was thinking about Dresden which was technically an act of

[26:13]Terror because it was volitionally targeting civilian populations for the intent of

[26:17]discouraging and creating Terror and so that I mean some of the

[26:23]greatest acts of Terror were committed by Western powers and then so

[26:27]often it is used as a tool especially against people of color

[26:31]to try to silence them which we saw with Nelson Mandela I

[26:35]think when we look back at this time we it will be

[26:41]with great shame I think even those of us who have been

[26:44]speaking up there's always going to be this question in the back

[26:48]of our mind of whether or not we could have done more

[26:50]or could have done better and and so whether resistance fighters in

[26:55]Palestine will be seen in the same way as Nelson Mandela I

[26:59]I don't I don't feel like I can speak on that I

[27:04]certainly think some of the not some of the people who are

[27:07]really speaking up and leading and and and even those who are

[27:13]speaking up with nonviolence who have been you know exiled and all

[27:15]of that Palestinians over the past few decades you know I think

[27:18]that there's going to be a lot of Heroes that arise from

[27:23]all of this and people who maybe the West has seen with

[27:26]disdain and with susp but I don't know and I don't feel

[27:32]like I can speak to who those Heroes will be right that's

[27:34]fair and I kind of want to relate this as well to

[27:38]another point in our conversation and that is how you have put

[27:41]together a theory or a kind of blueprint and I think that's

[27:45]also really worth discussing um this is a theory for the origins

[27:47]of harm based on obviously your travels to conflict and postconflict uh

[27:52]territories what what exactly does this blueprint Encompass can you tell us

[27:58]a little bit more about that yeah of course thank you for

[28:02]asking this blueprint it kind of started to form while I was

[28:05]in Lebanon and then as I continue to to do these interviews

[28:09]and then also just talk to survivors of conflict it really started

[28:13]to formulate and as I was researching so much of the US

[28:15]foreign policy during the Cold War that backfired it was like okay

[28:20]what is going on right why do so many humanitarian efforts fail

[28:25]or why are so many you know in ineff Ive in the

[28:31]long run why is so much peace building just very surface level

[28:33]and I really was like what is the what is the common

[28:37]thread of everyone who decides to take up arms but also people

[28:40]who are passive participants in harm I mean we see the people

[28:45]who are refusing to speak up in in the US government or

[28:46]the people who are refusing to speak up in other governments around

[28:50]the world like what what is the thing that causes us to

[28:54]be silent what's the thing that causes us to be manipulatable or

[28:58]controllable as a population so that people who want to accumulate power

[29:01]and wealth through the violence and oppression of others can do so

[29:05]and I sat with this idea for such a long time and

[29:10]almost like obsessed over it because I wanted to get to the

[29:15]bottom of it I was like we just need like some formula

[29:16]or framework that we can just go off of to say these

[29:20]are the necessary ingredients to create lasting positive change and so that's

[29:24]where I came up with the blueprint and so the blueprint really

[29:27]explores what I call the four forces they're the four root causes

[29:32]of harm um so they are the things that cause us to

[29:34]be active or passive participants in harm so that the four forces

[29:38]are fear victimization isolation and ignorance and if we want to create

[29:44]lasting positive change if we want to create a better more beautiful

[29:50]world for everyone we our Solutions in our movements must address the

[29:56]those four forces um with their opposites and we must also build

[30:00]resilience with within ourselves and so so much of this is obviously

[30:03]inspired by my conversations with former combatants of you know what could

[30:07]have stopped this from happening in the first place and a lot

[30:11]of it is is addressing the injustices a lot of it is

[30:13]address addressing and we brought up um you know in Israeli Society

[30:17]the indoctrination and the brainwashing a lot of it is addressing ignorance

[30:22]and in such a way that that really gets to the root

[30:24]of it it's not just like sitting here with a whiteboard and

[30:27]teaching someone out of ignorance it's just showing someone out of ignorance

[30:30]it's showing people there's a reason why Israeli Society is so threatened

[30:34]by meetings between Israelis and Palestinians because it destroys the Israeli narrative

[30:38]that everybody wants to push them into the sea and so all

[30:43]so all of this needs this sort of concerted effort to eradicate

[30:46]these forces and when these forces are eradicated we're able to think

[30:51]for ourselves we're not going to be manipulated by our leaders to

[30:54]partake in violence or for to let violence happen we're going to

[31:00]speak up when we see something that's wrong and it's the people

[31:03]that want to the people who are greedy the people who want

[31:09]to use these existing forces to accumulate wealth and power they're they're

[31:13]not going to be very relevant if the forces are not here

[31:16]that's the tools that they use and so the blueprint is really

[31:18]exploring what those four roots are and um you know what how

[31:23]we can address them within ourselves because that's also really important and

[31:27]then within Society to create lasting change right and thank you for

[31:30]asking about that it's um I've recently launched it and I'm very

[31:32]excited about yeah that's actually that's very that's very I think um

[31:36]eye openening and I think it's a conversation that's really worth having

[31:39]having especially now um especially now that a lot of the kind

[31:44]of dominating narratives do really sustain themselves on this idea of creating

[31:49]an US versus them mentality one thing I would say though and

[31:52]I think this this is to challenge your theory a little bit

[31:56]while I was going through journalism school one of the conferences that

[31:59]we attended was uh a program called roots and that was actually

[32:02]something that was happening in Palestine it was bringing Israelis and Palestinians

[32:06]together to speak together to talk through their differences and the kind

[32:10]of common goal that they were looking at was trying to take

[32:13]away those barriers that have prevented Israelis and Palestinians from seeing each

[32:17]other as brothers and sisters for such a long time one issue

[32:21]that always was a question in the back of my mind with

[32:25]efforts that really focus on this idea of understanding and dialogue is

[32:28]people will come together and they can talk and they can even

[32:31]reach understandings and say hey it is true that we have these

[32:37]bigger forces that have been trying to divide us but the reality

[32:39]is that those bigger forces do exist and so long as they

[32:43]exist and so long as you know you have for example this

[32:45]Zionist Chokehold that has essentially controlled America and American politics domestic or

[32:52]foreign or just the presence of Zionism itself which is um really

[32:57]a political force completely unrelated in many ways to Judaism itself which

[33:02]is something that even a lot of Jewish people will admit so

[33:05]long as you have those forces in power it's almost as if

[33:09]trying to promote that dialogue essentially what would really lead to anywhere

[33:12]you have people who come together and they really want to achieve

[33:15]peace and they even take many meaningful steps toward coming to that

[33:18]common understanding but you have these huge forces that are still controlling

[33:22]that narrative and essentially trying to eradicate any potential of that leading

[33:28]to anywhere do you think that there's any element of Wishful Thinking

[33:32]in your theory or do you think that in the long run

[33:36]it can be a practical way of achieving peace so I think

[33:41]that what you brought up is great and I'm so glad that

[33:44]you brought that up because I think that there's this sort of

[33:48]push still of let's come together Kumbaya whatever we're going to figure

[33:52]it out if we just come together and it's like no this

[33:56]this clearly this has been happening for decades these these meetings of

[34:00]coming together and some of them have produced great results but we're

[34:03]still here so we have to know that that's not enough and

[34:05]so when we think about ignorance I would say when it comes

[34:09]to Prejudice it's very easy to believe lies about someone you don't

[34:12]know and so you can confront that prejudice by learning about the

[34:16]people that you're prejudiced against and by connecting with them but that's

[34:21]one force of several that are at play in these situations and

[34:25]so is dialogue enough no does Di does dialogue represent a small

[34:31]piece of this larger puzzle of what's needed to sort of un

[34:34]indoctrinate Israelis yes I would also say that I don't think we

[34:41]should be waiting for Israelis for US citizens for anybody to wake

[34:45]up before someone steps in and stops this so this is not

[34:48]all like we need to have this conversation and we need to

[34:50]learn about each other so that the sense no no no we

[34:54]need very drastic measures from International Community and from even the global

[34:59]South to stop what's going on right now right and then when

[35:01]it comes to the dialogue and it comes to the coming together

[35:05]yeah if you have if you if I sit at a table

[35:05]with someone it might help but if I'm going to go back

[35:10]to being systematically oppressed and and in this state of constant fear

[35:14]and and people are going to take things away from me like

[35:20]that's obviously not going to be enough to stop and that and

[35:22]so that's where the other things that we we should be promoting

[35:24]besides just connection and belonging which would be you know education across

[35:28]the board but also Justice like satisfactory justice justice that's actually going

[35:34]to bring an end to these things eradicating the powers gives way

[35:37]to system change that will produce something that's better for everyone but

[35:40]that doesn't mean that just eradicating one power or addressing one type

[35:45]of ignorance is going to bring us to where we need to

[35:47]be there were a lot of uh Israelis who were part of

[35:53]these meetings before who are then then went and joined the military

[35:56]who were committed to nonviolence before who then went and joined the

[36:00]military after October 7th so clearly it wasn't enough it's just a

[36:03]small piece so I think that we're wishful thinking if the idea

[36:09]of coming together was the core then I think that that would

[36:12]have definitely been wishful thinking and I think you know it's it

[36:15]could be beautiful to connect but it's not enough right exactly does

[36:20]that answer your question yeah for sure and one of the reasons

[36:23]that I asked actually is because this whole uh theory of violence

[36:26]versus non-violence is something that comes up very frequently when we're talking

[36:30]about the practical ways to achieve lasting uh change and Liberation I

[36:34]don't think any longer many people believe that our leaders in positions

[36:39]of Power are going to be the ones to magically solve this

[36:44]problem because for so long they haven't been able to and I

[36:46]think that raises a lot of other Solutions where you know people

[36:49]like yourself actually sit down and think okay how are how are

[36:53]we actually going to address this one last question to kind of

[36:55]wrap this up is it's more of a personal one um I

[36:59]know you have also received comments about you know oh what is

[37:03]your real agenda with doing all of this you know content creation

[37:07]and speaking about Palestine which is not the most American issue if

[37:11]you will and there has also been on other sides with just

[37:16]other uh American or Western content creators that have grown a platform

[37:20]speaking about Palestine one of the questions that is often thrown at

[37:22]them is what are you really benefiting from this and you know

[37:25]is this just about putting a platform out there and being that

[37:30]you know white person who is amassing a huge following because this

[37:32]is the hot new topic how do you respond to some of

[37:34]those comments cuz I know um they do come up frequently yeah

[37:39]I think you know I'll address the second part of that question

[37:43]which is really people who are suspect about and then I'll address

[37:48]the first part later so if if people are suspicious of me

[37:52]because I am Western and because I'm speaking about this they have

[37:55]every right to be and so if a little bit like I

[38:00]don't necessarily fully address those things head on because I think that

[38:04]the only way to prove that I'm not just doing this for

[38:06]clout is to just continue to speak up and and the people

[38:11]that have watched a lot of my videos they know that this

[38:14]is something that I've cared about for a long time and they

[38:17]know that I'm informed on this subject and so I didn't just

[38:19]sort of hop in to this conversation to try to gain a

[38:23]following and things like that and so it's really like if I'm

[38:25]going to have a conversation with somebody who's suspicious of me I

[38:27]could be like you know I fully understand why you feel that

[38:33]way and the only way that I can prove you wrong is

[38:35]not by arguing with you but just by showing you that I

[38:38]am doing this from a place of like really wanting um something

[38:41]better which brings me to my agenda which do have an agenda

[38:47]like how could we not we are seeing Horrors happen and I

[38:50]and I think it's like live streamed genocide that has been bolstered

[38:58]and enabled by systems that so many of us have been asleep

[39:02]to that will take a long time to fully dismantle and how

[39:06]could we not have an agenda to want those systems to be

[39:10]dismantled how could we not have an agenda to want Collective Liberation

[39:13]how could we how could we sit here and say oh I

[39:17]just want to educate no I don't just want to educate I

[39:21]want to inform people and not only on what's happening right now

[39:22]but also the US history and involvement in other countries that have

[39:27]created and perpetuated you know violence and and conflicts and all over

[39:31]the world so that people understand that this isn't this didn't start

[39:34]on October 7th I'm not just talking about Palestine but I'm talking

[39:37]about the US involvement and US imperialism in the world and so

[39:42]when people say I have an agenda a lot of people will

[39:44]say like you get checks from Iran so and if you could

[39:48]ask them to send my checks that would be great good I've

[39:51]received none that's a bit of a stretch I would say but

[39:55]sure yeah it's people that's one of those every accusation is a

[40:02]confession type deals because um obviously influencers are paid by supporters of

[40:06]Israel and that it's they that happens but the thing about the

[40:14]funny thing about the truth is you don't have to pay people

[40:15]to tell the truth and that's why so many people are speaking

[40:21]up for Palestine with no further agenda with no want to make

[40:24]it a career or to make money from it that's you know

[40:28]that's how we got here so I do have an agenda I'm

[40:33]not being paid by Iran or Hamas or whatever I don't feel

[40:36]like any anybody who's speaking up needs to be paid because we

[40:41]just want to do this because it's right but I definitely you

[40:44]know I definitely have an agenda I this the world that we

[40:48]live in with the international systems that we have that have stood

[40:52]by as for decades as Palestinians have been tortured as children have

[40:58]been tortured and then with this continued and ongoing genocide this is

[41:03]not the world that I want to raise my future kids in

[41:06]and so my agenda is I want to co-create a better world

[41:08]because I do fully and wholeheartedly believe that our Liberation and freedom

[41:13]is tied up together I believe that nobody is free until we're

[41:18]all free so 100% that that was very inspiring that was also

[41:21]a very good ending to this conversation I think it really brought

[41:23]together um a lot of what you have been doing for a

[41:27]very long time um and it's it was really an honor to

[41:31]be able to speak to you more about all of your findings

[41:32]and your travels and everything and all the best to you thank

[41:37]you so much Hannah for being with us today thank you so

[41:40]much Sarah [Music] [Music]

0 تعليقات

التالي

Why They Chose War: American Activist’s Unfiltered Talks Challenge Western Narratives

Transcript

التالي

استكشاف المزيد

يرجى ملاحظة أنه إذا كان عمرك أقل من 18 عامًا ، فلن تتمكن من الوصول إلى هذا الموقع.

التالي

Why They Chose War: American Activist’s Unfiltered Talks Challenge Western Narratives

Transcript

التالي

استكشاف المزيد

اختيار طريقة الدفع

لغة