Awaiting the Imam & the Role of Scholars During Occultation - #TheCavePodcast

10 Views· 26/03/02

Sayed Mahdi Modarresi
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Examples of people who truly "waited" for their Imam. What is the role of scholars during occultation?

Transcript

[0:09]My dear brothers and sisters, viewers from around the world, the discussion

[0:19]that we've been uh pursuing over the last couple of episodes has

[0:25]been centered around one of the single most important doctrinal uh pillars

[0:34]and tenets of our faith and that is the awaited savior.

[0:40]Imm al- mahi.

[0:41]May Allah hasten his reappearance and make us amongst those who actively

[0:46]await his return and join him when he does.

[0:51]And we've covered a range of different topics with my uh guest

[1:00]the esteemed scholar his eminence must ali who joins me tonight as

[1:04]well.

[1:05]Thank you for having me.

[1:09]It's uh an absolute pleasure and uh we've received a lot of

[1:13]messages from uh people literally from around the world who have been

[1:17]uh following this uh uh podcast and uh telling us how uh

[1:25]beneficial it's been uh for them.

[1:26]And so I'd like to thank uh all the viewers and hope

[1:30]that inshallah they remember us in our in their prayers uh during

[1:34]this blessed month.

[1:35]And the topic uh that we've been uh focusing on uh especially

[1:42]in the last episode has been on the meaning of waiting for

[1:47]the imam, preparing for the imam which is a discussion that I

[1:54]think would span uh hundreds of episodes and classes and lectures.

[1:57]uh but uh in the interest of brevity and the limitations of

[2:01]time uh we'll have to cover some of the basics and uh

[2:07]in doing so uh one of the things that came to mind

[2:12]in the la last episode we didn't have enough time to cover

[2:15]that uh but uh what I wanted to do was to provide

[2:20]uh some examples of people who were awaiting the imam of their

[2:24]time and uh essentially to present them as role models for us.

[2:31]Uh and so very briefly I want to go over a couple

[2:33]of individuals.

[2:34]one uh is a person by the name of Anisn Alahi als

[2:47]joined Imam Hussein was uh incredibly uh interesting in that he didn't

[2:56]come with the Imam from Medina or Mecca.

[3:00]He didn't join uh his mission uh on route and he didn't

[3:02]come to Kbalah from other places like Kufa uh you know who

[3:09]came from the same tribe as an Kharith uh joined the Imam

[3:14]from Kufa.

[3:14]There were people who came from Basra and elsewhere but anis was

[3:19]unique in that he was in Karbala.

[3:22]He was probably the only person uh to be present in Karbala

[3:25]when Imam Hussein made his way there and traditions tell us that

[3:32]he was a very elderly man.

[3:35]Uh part of the reason was that he had actually met the

[3:38]holy prophet.

[3:39]He was one of the companions of Allah sallallam.

[3:42]So the question is what was he doing in Kbala?

[3:45]Yes, Beniad as a tribe inhabited the surrounding villages of uh the

[3:53]holy land of Karbala, but uh but it was still rather bizarre

[3:55]for him to be there.

[3:58]And the tradition states that uh when Imam Hussein came to him

[4:02]and told him as he told all of his companions that he

[4:05]should leave uh he responded to the imam by saying that I

[4:13]met your grandfather and uh you were a child back then.

[4:18]uh you came and when your grandfather saw you uh he looked

[4:22]at us uh those who were present uh in that session and

[4:27]he told us this son of mine to whom the holy prophet

[4:35]showed immense affection.

[4:39]He said that you should know that my son meaning I im

[4:42]Hussein will be killed in a land called so whoever encounters him

[4:53]should defend him should protect him.

[4:55]And so Kharith uh the way he received those words from the

[5:01]holy prophet was that he not only memorized them but he turned

[5:09]the the quote of the holy messenger into his lifelong mission.

[5:13]And so it turns out that when he heard of carbala he

[5:20]then moved to carbala.

[5:20]We don't know exactly when was it in the time of the

[5:24]holy prophet.

[5:23]probably not.

[5:24]Uh was it in the time of alumin?

[5:26]Was it in the time of Im Hassan?

[5:28]I suspect that he moved to Kbala after the departure and the

[5:36]death of Imam Hassan Alisam uh sometime uh around that era.

[5:39]And so uh he came to Karbala and uh in anticipation of

[5:47]Imam Hussein coming here and one day found finding himself surrounded by

[5:52]his enemies uh he actually uh created an encamp encampment for himself

[5:57]and waited until Imam Hussein came.

[6:00]And there are several references to that in Sunni sources as well

[6:04]as Shia sources that he was there simply waiting for Imam Hussein

[6:11]to come.

[6:09]Now in our case we don't really uh I mean we we

[6:15]do have traditions about where IM Zaman will first appear.

[6:20]It'll be in Mecca.

[6:21]We know that Imam Zaman lives uh in uh certain places uh

[6:28]like Radwa and uh but that's not perhaps what's required of us

[6:32]is it to for us to be physically present somewhere rather it

[6:35]is the mindset it is the uh the anticipation it is the

[6:42]uh uh uh the process of awaiting the imam and making sure

[6:46]that our entire lives are centered around that >> but but sometimes

[6:52]uh your anticipation is manifested uh through doing certain things like I

[6:58]know uh a brother who's uh who purchased a house near because

[7:06]of the narrations that stayed he will uh establish his uh his

[7:12]government inj so even even though he doesn't know if he's going

[7:15]to live until uh the time of the imam But just to

[7:20]uh live in that area, your life would revolve around the remembrance

[7:25]of that's what makes it >> so the so the choice of

[7:30]where you intend to live >> if that is linked to Imam

[7:35]Zaman surely so will everything else.

[7:37]I think we have a hadith as well about those who live

[7:41]in the uh the city of Kufa and the tradition says something

[7:44]along the lines that the happiest people, the luckiest people will be

[7:48]the ones who live in Kufa.

[7:49]And so imagine if somebody decides to just pack everything and go

[7:54]and live in Kufa in anticipation of the Imam's return.

[7:56]Once again, that that tells you that their entire lives revolve around

[8:00]the return of the Imam.

[8:02]>> Yeah.

[8:04]And especially that because uh our hearts need to be directed towards

[8:10]the imam, we would want to know about his whereabouts.

[8:12]For example, we know that the imam goes to Hajj every year.

[8:18]And many people would go to Hajj uh just to be in

[8:21]uh in the same place where the the imam is.

[8:26]Or for example, when we recite in dua, where are you?

[8:32]These are two villages that are near Mecca and Medina.

[8:37]So you would automatically uh be uh directed towards the whereabouts of

[8:44]the Imam.

[8:47]So he took it to a whole new level by relocating to

[8:53]uh a a place that a barren land like in the middle

[8:55]of the desert in anticipation of uh Mam Hussein's arrival so he

[9:01]could support him.

[9:01]And while we're not suggesting that everyone should go and relocate to

[9:06]Kufa, if that's an option for you, then um you know, more

[9:12]power to you as they say.

[9:13]But uh that's not the idea.

[9:14]The idea is to ensure that the major decisions in our lives

[9:21]revolve around the Imam's satisfaction, the Imam's um supervision as well as

[9:27]the Imam's submission to the Imam as well as the Imam's return.

[9:32]Right?

[9:33]Uh being ready means that every time I'm faced with uh a

[9:37]choice that I pick the one that aligns more closely to the

[9:43]imam rather than my own desires and my own wishes.

[9:47]Uh the other example is and we mentioned his name in the

[9:50]previous episode but I find uh >> the grandson or the grandfather

[9:56]>> the one who wanted to go to Hajj for 10 years.

[9:58]>> The grandson.

[10:01]Yeah.

[9:59]>> The grandson.

[10:01]the one who who who uh actually went to Hajj I think

[10:05]nine or 10 times for the sole purpose obviously to perform the

[10:09]pilgrimage but also uh the idea was that knowing the imam is

[10:14]going to be in Hajj he wanted to be in a close

[10:15]proximity to the Imam to maximize his chances of meeting him and

[10:21]so he goes to Hajj uh for all those years especially back

[10:25]in the day when going to Hajj was extremely difficult now it

[10:30]is difficult let alone uh when you had to ride camels and

[10:33]mules and so forth, >> it would take months just to >>

[10:36]it would take months.

[10:37]People would even write their will before they went because there was

[10:40]many people a very strong uh probability that you probably wouldn't make

[10:44]it.

[10:44]Um and so uh he doesn't get to meet the imam after

[10:50]all those years.

[10:49]And so one year he says to himself, "It doesn't look like

[10:54]I stand a chance." And so uh this year I'm going to

[10:56]skip Hajj.

[10:57]And so that night he sees a dream where somebody tells him

[11:03]that the thing you're wishing um for is going to happen if

[11:05]you go to Hajj this year.

[11:06]And so he the next morning he hurries toward the caravan which

[11:12]had already left his city.

[11:13]I think he lived some somewhere near Awaz in the in the

[11:19]south of Iran.

[11:18]And so um very long story short, he goes to Hajj and

[11:25]sure enough he is granted that audience with the Imam of the

[11:29]time.

[11:30]Now he goes and he enters the tent of the Imam.

[11:35]He describes the Imam in a manner that is so vivid, so

[11:38]beautiful.

[11:39]Um it uh it really humanizes the Imam.

[11:44]Uh may God's peace and blessings be upon him.

[11:47]uh for those people who haven't had the honor and the privilege

[11:49]to meet him.

[11:51]But what I find most interesting about that encounter is that uh

[11:56]when uh the imam sees him and he sees the imam uh

[12:02]the imam tells him >> we have been waiting for you day

[12:08]and night.

[12:09]>> Now I'll mention the rest of the conversation then come back

[12:14]to this this statement.

[12:14]He says to the imam, "I've been longing to see you.

[12:20]I've been trying.

[12:20]I've been coming to Hajj all these years." Um, and so the

[12:25]imam says to him, uh, he says, he says, "I'm the one

[12:27]who's been waiting." The Imam says, "I'm the one waiting, not you."

[12:32]In other words, I've been waiting for you to be ready.

[12:34]You weren't ready up until this moment.

[12:36]Right?

[12:37]Um but going back to the IM statement, the fact that he

[12:43]tells him, "We have been waiting for you day and night." Now,

[12:47]we we accept and believe that the imam doesn't exaggerate.

[12:52]The imam's not embellishing anything here.

[12:55]When he says to him that I've been waiting for you day

[12:59]and night, he's been waiting for him day and night.

[13:00]In other words, the imam's been yearning for the time when and

[13:08]everybody else could be able to >> are ready to meet him.

[13:13]Uh and the fact that we're not I think puts the onus

[13:18]on us and it and it shows that um you know it

[13:20]it highlights our shortcomings.

[13:23]And so um again I wanted to mention these two examples >>

[13:26]and and say allow me to interrupt to cite an example of

[13:32]uh of people that uh weren't ready.

[13:35]uh an example of um of a person who who was given

[13:43]this uh great opportunity but he didn't seize it was a person

[13:47]who came with uh Omar uh to Kbalah to take part in

[13:56]the war against Im Hussein.

[13:56]So when he when they reached Kbalah he suddenly remembers something that

[14:02]happened during the time of M.

[14:03]So he was in the ranks of Im Ali Alisam during his

[14:10]uh his war against Muawi and Safi.

[14:12]Uh upon returning from Safen they come to this place which was

[14:23]Kbala.

[14:20]Uh he said your father suddenly began to cry.

[14:25]He shed a few tears and then >> he's saying this to

[14:31]Im Hussein.

[14:29]>> Yes.

[14:30]So he was he was he came with >> right >> but

[14:33]he asked permission to meet with Imam Hussein.

[14:35]So he goes and and meets with the imam and he tells

[14:39]him the story.

[14:39]He said, "As we were returning from Sufine, I was with your

[14:45]father.

[14:43]Uh, your father began to cry." And then he said, "Uh, one

[14:50]of the one of the statements that the imam made was uh

[14:56]a part of will get killed on this land." Um, and the

[15:04]imam obviously was very emotional.

[15:06]Uh and uh and then he he says to im Hussein that

[15:12]your father said this your father was an extraordinary man when he

[15:18]says something about the future he knows what he's saying and let

[15:23]me tell you something I don't think any member of the holy

[15:27]progeny of Allah have ever come to uh to this land when

[15:33]we came I suddenly remembered that it was this land that your

[15:38]father was talking So the imam then tells him uh now what

[15:41]will you fight against us or will you join us?

[15:44]He said no uh I I will not fight against you but

[15:48]I'm not ready to to join you as well.

[15:50]>> I've got a family.

[15:52]I've got a business.

[15:52]I've got >> I I need to leave.

[15:56]And then the imam said okay.

[15:57]Uh it's as if the imam appreciated him telling the imam this

[16:01]story as if the imam didn't know.

[16:05]But he was sincere about this.

[16:06]He told him that you're going to you're going to get killed

[16:08]here.

[16:08]So the imam wanted to give him money.

[16:10]I think it was like 300 dinars which was a lot of

[16:16]money back then.

[16:13]The man says I told him no.

[16:20]I'm depriving you from my support and I take your money.

[16:24]I would never do this.

[16:24]So I didn't take my money and I left you.

[16:28]>> It reminds me of Um although there's a there's a disagreement

[16:36]as to whether or not actually made it.

[16:40]But the the the common story is that uh he also encountered

[16:45]the Imam and the Imam invited him.

[16:46]But he said, "I've got some errands to run.

[16:47]I've got things to do and I'll come back." And when he

[16:50]came back, it was too late.

[16:51]>> A lot of people think that they're ready to join the

[16:55]imam, but they're not.

[16:55]>> And yeah, and then there are lots of stories of people

[16:59]being tested as well.

[17:00]people who have spent their entire lives saying, people praying for the

[17:07]Imam's return and then being tested in one way or another.

[17:09]Uh and uh uh it it it becomes clear to them that

[17:16]uh they really uh aren't ready to to meet their their imam.

[17:22]Um so the ne next question I have is uh about the

[17:27]role of scholars during the occultation.

[17:29]Uh I think that's a that's an important discussion to have because

[17:34]given that we are in an era which on the one hand

[17:42]it is an incredible time to be alive uh given that we

[17:46]have been offered the chance to to be among those who await

[17:52]the Imam of of of their time uh and to potentially witness

[17:55]his return.

[17:57]On the other hand, it is absolutely miserable that we have no

[18:02]access to our imam.

[18:04]And so the question that is presented is what do we do?

[18:07]Uh we're like an army without a general.

[18:10]Uh we're like we're like a flock uh of of sheep without

[18:19]their shepherd.

[18:17]We we we don't have access to the only person who is

[18:23]God's proof and who can tell us exactly what to do and

[18:26]what not to do.

[18:29]And so the scholars are they meant to fill that gap?

[18:36]Are they meant uh to replace the imam?

[18:39]Exactly what is their role according to the traditions of themselves?

[18:43]Scholars play a major role during the time of and I say

[18:52]this uh to the people who are influenced by calls uh made

[18:59]by people who spread misconceptions about uh uh why we shouldn't follow

[19:05]the scholars and go straight to the to the hadith to the

[19:09]sources of >> uh of the uh uh of the rulings.

[19:12]uh including people who uh call themselves Akbaris.

[19:16]I call them neoakaris or pseudoadaris.

[19:19]But there are those uh who have adopted this title falsely and

[19:23]uh they seem to be among the most vehement opponents of scholars

[19:30]and and jurists.

[19:31]That's all they do.

[19:34]They they attack scholars.

[19:34]They uh claim that um uh scholars uh are uh they they

[19:42]prevent people from >> reaching the >> reaching the the imam.

[19:47]U so this this hadith that I I would like to quote

[19:53]is a beautiful hadith.

[19:52]Uh one day I im uh sees Abu Halif uh Abu Hanifh

[20:00]is asked by the Imam regarding a verse in the Quran to

[20:05]explain uh a verse in the Quran.

[20:08]He says to him, "What do you think of this verse that

[20:12]says uh and we placed between them and the towns that we

[20:24]blessed many visible towns?

[20:36]Uh we measured the distances between them, travel between them by night

[20:48]or day in safety with no fear basically.

[20:57]>> So Abuhanifh gave the classic response that many Muslims uh would

[21:04]give if you ask them about this verse.

[21:07]He said that this is regarding the holy city of Medina and

[21:10]the holy city of Mecca.

[21:11]People travel between these two cities.

[21:13]Uh and this is what Allahh is speaking about.

[21:16]The imam said to him but but Allah is saying you'll be

[21:23]safe.

[21:24]You'll be in safety.

[21:27]And especially back then there were a lot of thugs and uh

[21:29]>> pirates and highway bandits and whatnot.

[21:32]And I don't think there was a a caravan that was ever

[21:38]safe traversing in that desert.

[21:38]U so Abu Hanifh didn't have a a response because obviously this

[21:45]verse would not apply to uh Mecca and Medina.

[21:46]So we sometimes we have the of a verse which is the

[21:51]uh the meaning of the >> the apparent meaning >> the apparent

[21:56]meaning and you have theaw is the inner meaning but the imam

[22:00]clearly is stating that this is not the of the verse this

[22:06]is the of the verse >> because the apparent meaning does not

[22:08]apply to then the im explains to what Allahh is saying >>

[22:16]by the way The other issue that uh the common sort of

[22:22]classical interpretation has is that it's talking about those blessed villages or

[22:27]towns and then you've got those towns that are in between them

[22:31]and they are uh the apparent towns right so again how would

[22:35]they how would they interpret that it it doesn't make much sense

[22:40]so the imam then says that the meaning of this verse is

[22:42]that Allah subhana wa ta'ala placed between us the blessed people, the

[22:51]towns, the prophet is referring to himself as the city of knowledge

[22:56]and Ali is the the gate to to the city of knowledge.

[22:59]>> So the blessed towns are the members of the the imams

[23:05]and God's vice jar >> and Allah in numerous verses refers to

[23:08]them as the blessed ones.

[23:11]>> So between them between them their followers, their Shia and the

[23:18]blessed towns, the apparent towns or the ostensible towns in this verse

[23:28]is a reference to the >> uh that connect the Shia to

[23:35]the of course this is a this is a primary condition in

[23:42]any scholar that we are required to follow.

[23:43]Sorry.

[23:44]The hadith says >> the main feature.

[23:54]Uh so basically the role of the scholar is to connect the

[24:00]people to the if you find a scholar who is constantly uh

[24:04]undermining the Shia heritage and saying that every Shia hadith is weak

[24:09]and and we should only go to the Quran.

[24:11]He's not connecting the people to the to the >> he's preventing

[24:16]people from reaching the he's saying everything is weak.

[24:20]Uh so this is the main condition you the the scholar need

[24:24]needs to connect us to the and then the imam says if

[24:36]>> we have measured the >> we've measured the distance so so

[24:40]traverse between them in safety >> in safety so once uh you

[24:47]go to a righteous scholar that connects you to you'll be in

[24:51]safe hands.

[24:51]>> Otherwise, it's dangerous.

[24:54]You're in uncharted territory.

[24:56]>> You can't ask ordinary people to go to the uh to

[25:01]the hadith and and basically extract the rulings from the hadith.

[25:05]They don't have the expertise.

[25:08]They can't do it.

[25:08]And if and if you tell them don't go to the scholars,

[25:12]what you're doing is telling them not to go to the because

[25:14]they represent the gate to the >> So uh I remember uh

[25:22]someone once approached me and and raised the issue of scholars and

[25:26]why we need to refer back to them instead of simply going

[25:29]straight to the uh to the holy Quran the source the traditions

[25:34]of the and extrapolating uh the rulings from them and learning directly

[25:38]from them.

[25:40]And my response to him was uh was this hadith where the

[25:43]imam says, "As for uh new events and challenges that present themselves

[25:52]to you, if you're looking for a solution to those, the imam

[25:57]doesn't say go back to our traditions." He says go back to

[26:02]those who narrate our traditions.

[26:04]The Imam could have easily said simply refer back to our traditions.

[26:07]Right?

[26:08]You've got those books, you've got the uh narrations of the B

[26:12]and their teachings.

[26:12]Simply go there.

[26:13]But the Imam says go back to the ones who narrate them

[26:15]because it's not just about narrating the hadith.

[26:18]It's not just about reading the hadith.

[26:21]It's about uh explaining it and applying it to uh uh these

[26:28]different circumstances because one hadith uh might apply to one era but

[26:33]not other uh sort of situations.

[26:35]And so it is the role of a scholar to sift through

[26:40]the a hadith, fully understand them, contextualize them, and apply them where

[26:44]they need to be applied.

[26:47]It's almost like uh telling someone that when you get sick, simply

[26:50]go into a pharmacy, pick out whatever medications you want and take

[26:53]them.

[26:54]And if you want to do some research on your own, you

[26:57]can do that as well.

[26:57]But no, you need a pharmacist because a pharmacist is the one

[27:00]and a doctor to prescribe the medication to begin with.

[27:05]He's the one who knows what medicine to give uh to uh

[27:07]heal what ailment and what condition >> and and and also the

[27:15]rulings extrapolated from the source uh they're not mathematical equations.

[27:19]This is why a scholar needs to possess a number of qualities

[27:22]like tawa to be able to uh to acquire the divine knowledge

[27:28]they need to have.

[27:29]They need to be fully submissive to the for the to grant

[27:36]them the knowledge.

[27:40]Knowledge is is is a light that is uh that is given

[27:45]>> shown to the hearts.

[27:46]>> shown to the hearts.

[27:49]Exactly.

[27:49]So an ordinary man wouldn't wouldn't be able to possess these qualities.

[27:53]>> Like you need to go to a scholar that has these

[27:57]qualities.

[27:57]>> The whole package.

[27:58]>> The whole package.

[27:59]Now thinking about this question I was sort of uh trying to

[28:09]imagine the major roles that our scholars uh play and uh I

[28:15]think the first one is that they are educators.

[28:17]uh they are the ones who uh uh uh illuminate the community

[28:26]with the teachings of the holy Quran and the uh fill in

[28:30]any uh gaps in their knowledge and essentially educate the community.

[28:35]Now uh in that regard there is a couple of narrations that

[28:40]I'd like to read out.

[28:41]The first one is by the holy prophet sallallahu alaih in which

[28:44]he says a team.

[28:47]What is worse than being an orphan?

[28:51]Now, we can imagine how difficult it is, but will never be

[28:59]able to grasp the enormity of what orphanhood is unless you're an

[29:02]orphan.

[29:03]Uh, and yet the prophet says there's something worse than being orphaned

[29:07]from your parents.

[29:11]The one who's been severed from his uh father and his mother

[29:19]is the orphanhood of someone who's been severed from his imam, from

[29:29]his um divinely uh appointed leader.

[29:32]Uh the one who's unable to access his imam, he's unable to

[29:36]reach him.

[29:41]and doesn't have the answers to his or her uh religious questions

[29:51]and problems.

[29:49]Uh Allah the prophet then says so whoever is from among our

[30:00]sh our followers and uh is someone who's endowed with our knowledge

[30:13]this orphan who's been severed from his imam who lacks knowledge in

[30:20]their faith and is uh uh disconnected from us and unable to

[30:24]reach us is an orphan under his care under the care of

[30:29]this scholar.

[30:32]You should know that anyone who guides this orphan and who allows

[30:39]him to uh drink from the pristine waters of uh God's religion

[30:45]will be raised with us in the highest positions of paradise.

[30:50]The holy prophet gives this glad tiding to these scholars.

[30:53]The other hadith is by >> sorry to interrupt you but I

[31:00]remembered from this hadith when he passed away the one that the

[31:06]scholar that prayed on his janaza was >> so in his testimony

[31:11]or his classmate >> his classmate in his salat he gave a

[31:13]testimony he said >> uh that you uh sorry he was speaking

[31:20]to Allah pray for him that he spent his time uh taking

[31:23]care of the orphans of Al Muhammad.

[31:27]You attended that funeral by the way.

[31:29]>> I was I was in >> you were there.

[31:32]Subhan Allah.

[31:33]And you studied under both of them.

[31:36]I understand.

[31:36]May Allah prolong the life of and bless.

[31:43]So the other hadith I wanted to mention is from Imam.

[31:46]The Imam says the scholars the jurists of our faith are or

[32:01]or of our community.

[32:06]Our followers are the warriors who stand by the border >> in

[32:10]the trenches.

[32:10]>> The trenches.

[32:12]So the Imam explains the role of the scholars by providing this

[32:18]illustration.

[32:16]If you imagine religion as a country, you have a border and

[32:23]this border is usually situated around very rough terrain, mountainous, rugged regions.

[32:29]He says that the scholars are the warriors who stand at those

[32:35]borders in those trenches which are being under attack by Satan and

[32:40]his demons.

[32:46]And they block the the demons from reaching the weak members of

[32:55]our community, our followers and ensuring that the followers ofl so himself

[33:06]is one thing, his demons is another.

[33:08]Then you've got the Shia of El the Noas, the uh the

[33:14]people who try to sew seeds of doubt and whatnot.

[33:18]These scholars are the warriors who are at the front lines fighting

[33:21]uh this uh this enemy.

[33:27]Whoever occupies this position, meaning the position of these scholars, He he

[33:39]he this person will be better than the ones who fight the

[33:45]strongest armies in the world.

[33:46]A thousand thousand times.

[33:46]So a million times better than those.

[33:49]Why?

[33:56]Because these scholars protect and safeguard the religion of our lovers and

[34:02]our followers.

[34:03]whereas those physical warriors and fighters are protecting their lives and their

[34:09]bodies.

[34:10]So I think this role is an absolutely critical one which I

[34:13]I think it's sad that most people don't recognize that this is

[34:20]one of the primary uh roles of a scholar to be an

[34:22]educator to teach to help ensure that the community uh knows their

[34:26]religious duties and their doctrines.

[34:29]There's another hadith narrated by imi.

[34:33]The Imm says that if it uh if it were not for

[34:38]those scholars who remain after the occultation of uh of the Imam

[34:43]uh the ones that call people to him, >> guide others towards

[34:50]him, defend his religion with the proofs of Allah subhana wa ta'ala

[34:54]and rescue the weak uh the weak servants of Allah from the

[34:57]traps of Shaitan and his followers and from the snares of the

[35:03]enemies.

[35:04]No one would remain except that he would turn away from the

[35:06]religion of Allah subhana wa tala.

[35:08]>> So if it wasn't for these scholars, people wouldn't >> maintain

[35:13]their faith and religion.

[35:13]>> Absolutely.

[35:15]Um so okay, so that's that's one one critical role.

[35:19]The other one is that they are um they're leaders and administrators

[35:27]albeit with limited executive power.

[35:30]Right?

[35:31]So the role of a leader uh is different from the role

[35:37]of an educator.

[35:36]But really can can we even imagine our community without the leadership

[35:44]of our scholars and jurists over the last thousand odd years.

[35:49]If we didn't have these scholars to tell us especially at the

[35:53]most critical turning points to tell us what to do, where to

[35:58]go, how to conduct ourselves, especially in like the the the biggest

[36:03]most strategic issues that affect the community, would we even survive?

[36:07]>> Absolutely not.

[36:10]I mean, a clear example is uh fatwa uh to defend uh

[36:16]Iraq from dash.

[36:16]I remember back then or in the beginning when they were able

[36:21]to occupy uh the city of Musul which is the second largest

[36:23]city in Iraq.

[36:26]Um I remember that a senior official uh in a in one

[36:32]of the most powerful western uh governments said that uh it will

[36:40]take years uh to uh be able to fight off d and

[36:47]to uh to basically uh put an end to uh to their

[36:49]>> uh menace.

[36:51]uh we saw what they did to other countries like Syria.

[36:55]>> They caused absolute, you know, mayhem there >> and eventually came

[37:00]to power and so so they they they they literally did that

[37:03]to Syria and yet somehow Iraq was the exception despite the fact

[37:09]that the dash really, you know, put up a a vicious fight

[37:12]in Iraq and Iraq to them was was the bigger fish.

[37:16]>> Yeah.

[37:17]because they were able to occupy all the banks and uh in

[37:22]in Musl and they had hundreds of millions of dollars.

[37:25]>> They had uh unlimited resources and they had they they suddenly

[37:32]became very powerful and sistani I remember in one of the meetings

[37:36]with the say uh my father asked about his health.

[37:41]He wasn't feeling well.

[37:41]He had a cold.

[37:43]Um the my father said to him that uh uh that your

[37:46]health is not just important uh for yourself >> for yourself but

[37:52]it's important for all the Shia.

[37:54]He said uh he he he was trying to be humble but

[38:01]he was sincere in his words.

[38:03]He said that uh what I have is from from Allahh otherwise

[38:07]I'm just like every other specialist in his field.

[38:13]I specialize in uh in Jewish prudence.

[38:15]Uh but we find that all of a sudden someone who specializes

[38:19]in Jewish prudence and the words of he assumes this position where

[38:27]with with one statement he he's able to mobilize the entire nation

[38:31]and I remember back then people from outside of Iraq wanted to

[38:35]join but sistani issued a uh like an amendment to his fatwa

[38:40]saying that we don't need people to come from >> exclusive to

[38:44]people >> exclusive just to to the people of Iraq and look

[38:46]at what he did with just half a line he was able

[38:51]to galvanize the Iraqis and the heroic stories and it's it's mindboggling

[38:55]and they've recently published a a whole encyclopedia about their stories >>

[38:59]and this is just one uh out of you know hundreds of

[39:03]examples throughout Shia history.

[39:05]>> Uh this one happens to be familiar because it is uh

[39:10]contemporary.

[39:11]it is in our lifetimes.

[39:12]And so we uh we were blessed to sort of see the

[39:18]uh the the the trajectory of events and how they unfolded uh

[39:22]and the role that uh our scholars and grand jurists played in

[39:31]uh affecting global geopolitics.

[39:31]I mean who can you imagine that such a role would be

[39:35]granted to someone from the Buddhist faith or the Hindu faith or

[39:40]what have you.

[39:40]Uh but no there is something truly special about this.

[39:45]So leadership um albeit as we said with limited executive power at

[39:50]the end of the day um you know the overwhelming majority of

[39:55]our jurists throughout the centuries they they >> no military, no nothing.

[39:58]>> They had nothing.

[40:01]All they had really was a pen and a notebook and they

[40:08]would write their edicts uh and their decrees uh you know uh

[40:11]with their hands and sometimes they'd be like a line or two

[40:14]lines.

[40:15]Um but they truly transformed uh the the landscape the political landscape

[40:21]as well as well as the moral landscape of the community and

[40:28]they shaped uh the community's um development uh for uh for centuries

[40:32]and they continue to do so uh despite the absence of the

[40:35]imam and despite the fact that these scholars are not to be

[40:41]compared with the imam of the time.

[40:45]Right?

[40:45]These scholars are are ultimately uh you know the the best of

[40:50]them is is a speck right a a small insignificant student um

[40:56]among the thousands of other students that the Imam of the time

[41:00]has.

[41:00]And so in a way getting to know these scholars, the righteous

[41:04]jurists of the Shia faith, allows us to at least scratch the

[41:09]surface on the the grandiose nature of God's actual vice gerant, right?

[41:18]The imam, the proof of Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala.

[41:21]Um, and uh, and the fact that these go on saying, sorry

[41:26]to interrupt you again.

[41:26]Uh the hadith says that describes when the imam comes and he

[41:33]gives uh a sermon in in the grand mosque of Kufa.

[41:37]Uh so the hadith describes uh the mosque during the time of

[41:45]the imam.

[41:43]Uh it will be a huge mosque uh with tens of huge

[41:48]gates and doors.

[41:51]Uh so people the the uh the number of people that will

[41:55]attend his salat uh will fill uh the area between Kufa and

[42:03]Kbala >> and uh people wouldn't be able to hear him speak

[42:05]uh because everyone is crying with every word that the imam utters

[42:10]everyone is just crying >> tears of joy >> tears of joy

[42:15]and so people that are there and want to listen attentively can't

[42:19]listen to to the >> IM subhan allah as we say in

[42:32]Um, you know, just imagining the Imam in his physical sort of

[42:43]uh existence in front of us.

[42:46]I I can I can uh sympathize with with those who are

[42:50]unable to control their emotions of joy and happiness and cry uncontrollably

[42:57]even though the imam speaking and you'd think that everyone would want

[43:02]to hear every syllable that comes out of his blessed uh mouth.

[43:06]Um the is there a link between our scholars and the Imam?

[43:12]Because I think there there are people who assume that our supreme

[43:19]jurists must be in constant communication with the Imam of the time.

[43:24]Um but is is there any proof for that?

[43:27]Is there uh is is that not a correct assumption to make?

[43:31]Well, uh he he gives them this authority.

[43:39]He says that uh I am God's authority uh to them above

[43:50]them uh and they are my authority for you.

[43:56]By the way, this is the same hadith where the imam says

[44:01]refer to the narrators of our hadith.

[44:03]The Imam then uh essentially grants them this authority and says that

[44:08]uh I am an authority upon them and they are an authority

[44:12]upon you.

[44:11]>> Yes, this hadith is mentioned in his ex Jesus on the

[44:18]Quran and you wouldn't find a single scholar that would cast doubt

[44:21]on the validity of this hadith.

[44:23]>> So it's a reliable hadith.

[44:27]Uh so basically the imam says this doesn't mean that they're infallible.

[44:31]This doesn't mean that everything that they say or do uh is

[44:36]sanctioned by Allah subhana wa ta'ala uh is validated by the but

[44:42]it gives him this general authority.

[44:44]>> Is the imam uh sort of guiding and supervising the grand

[44:52]jurists?

[44:53]The answer I think we can say that broadly speaking is yes.

[44:58]Uh the imam looks after his community when as the imam says

[45:13]in his letter to Mu.

[45:13]Um, and so that that answers the question of whether or not

[45:19]there's ever been any correspondence between the Imam and the grand jurists.

[45:23]And the answer is yes.

[45:23]And in that one particular letter, the Imam does say to him

[45:28]that we are not ne neglectful of you.

[45:32]We're not forgetful of our our followers and our community.

[45:35]And had that been the case, you would have been uprooted by

[45:41]your enemies.

[45:40]you would have been obliterated uh by your foes.

[45:46]So I guess we could we could summize from that that the

[45:50]Imam uh the Imam's constant supervision and care towards his followers also

[45:57]dictates that he has uh a supervisory uh role towards our scholars

[46:07]and toward the grand pious righteous jurists.

[46:10]Uh but to claim that the jurists are in constant communication I

[46:14]think is a mistake just like you said uh because what that

[46:18]entails is that uh it almost gives them an aura of infallibility

[46:25]and they don't have that infallibility.

[46:26]There are times when especially at critical turning points uh the scholars

[46:31]themselves would uh would suggest to their followers that this particular injunction

[46:38]I received from the Imam.

[46:42]Um, for instance, uh, a story that we referenced a couple of

[46:46]nights ago, uh, where Mira Shirazi issues that, uh, edict, uh, to,

[46:51]uh, prohibit the use of tobacco, uh, for people in Iran and

[46:57]Iraq and the general Shia community, uh, as a political statement that

[47:00]was designed to repel the imperial uh, and colonial powers uh, at

[47:06]the time.

[47:08]And so, uh, by the way, everyone, according to memos by, uh,

[47:13]the top, uh, you know, political brass of Iran, they have written

[47:20]memoirs and they mention, I saw a couple the other day where

[47:23]the prime minister of Iran at the time says in his memoirs

[47:26]that I um, uh, when when the fatwa was issued, even though

[47:32]you didn't have the internet back then, you didn't have any uh,

[47:35]you know, mass communication uh tools.

[47:37]Uh a copy of the fatwa arrived in Iran through such and

[47:44]such scholar uh who was a local here and uh and and

[47:49]when when people started uh telling each other or or sort of

[47:54]copying that uh fatwa by Mirashi, it spread like wildfire.

[47:57]And he says that it went to the extent that every single

[48:03]person who was addicted to smoking stopped smoking.

[48:04]They went cold turkey because the mer had said that uh you

[48:10]know uh using tobacco products in any way is tantamount to fighting

[48:14]the Imam of the time.

[48:15]And he he mentions a couple of examples.

[48:17]He says that there were there was a a a horse race

[48:25]that had been in the works for years and uh this was

[48:28]finally ready to be launched and so tens of thousands of people

[48:34]attended these races.

[48:33]He says that I went there and I observed that not a

[48:40]single person who was uh who was there to uh to uh

[48:45]to see the uh the the races was smoking.

[48:48]He says this was very uh it wasn't ordinary.

[48:49]It was it was a very strange thing because people were so

[48:54]smoking was so common at the time.

[48:57]He says and a friend of mine told me that I have

[49:01]a laborer.

[49:00]I've hired someone to renovate my house.

[49:03]And uh he said he said one day the laborer came to

[49:06]me and he said I am not gonna work for you anymore

[49:09]and I don't even want your money for the work that I've

[49:12]already provided.

[49:13]He said I told him why.

[49:14]He said because you smoke >> and as someone who uses tobacco

[49:18]I don't want to work for you.

[49:20]I don't even want your money because it's not pure.

[49:24]So interestingly enough uh Mira does have there's a there's a connection

[49:28]between him and the Imam, isn't there?

[49:29]uh just before I mention the connection they say that it was

[49:36]during Nasarin Nasarin Shah's time so he tells his wife to bring

[49:40]him his shisha >> which was tobacco shisha >> so she tells

[49:45]him that I'm not allowed I don't have permission he's the king

[49:49]of Iran and his wife is telling him that I don't have

[49:51]the permission he said who who who didn't give you the permission

[49:54]she said the same person that uh officiated my marriage with with

[50:00]you.

[50:01]So the the person that made me to you is the one

[50:03]that said it's haram to to smoke tobacco.

[50:05]>> I I I think I think they say that even in

[50:09]the in the Sha palace, they were throwing uh the the the

[50:15]shisha out the windows and breaking them um when the fatwa or

[50:18]news of the fatwa arrived.

[50:21]So yeah, it's it's incredible how much power and influence our scholars

[50:27]have.

[50:25]And the reason for that is aside from their their righteousness and

[50:33]piousness and so on and piety is that uh they say that

[50:35]uh some of the students of mashi went to him and at

[50:40]the time there was a lot of um there was a lot

[50:44]of sort of back and forth uh to to see whether the

[50:46]Mira was going to issue the fatwa and so on.

[50:49]It was almost common knowledge that he was going to do that.

[50:53]Uh but he delayed it by a couple of days.

[50:56]And so when he issued the fatwa, some of his students went

[50:58]to him and they said to him, "What took you so long?"

[51:01]You know, you could have said this two days ago or three

[51:03]days ago.

[51:04]And so they say that he put his hand underneath his uh

[51:10]mattress uh that uh that he used to to sleep on and

[51:11]to sit on and to teach on.

[51:13]He put his hand under the mattress and he pulled out a

[51:16]sheet of paper and he showed it to them.

[51:19]And it was the exact same wording of the fatwa verbatim >>

[51:23]but in a different handwriting.

[51:26]He said, "I was waiting for this." And the suggestion was that

[51:29]I was waiting for the imam himself to give me instructions.

[51:32]And you can tell from the wording of the fatw using tobacco

[51:40]today is equivalent to fighting against.

[51:45]So who who told him that this is if if you're smoking

[51:49]tobacco this is equivalent to fighting M.

[51:51]>> That's a that's a very bold statement to make that you

[51:55]know committing any act of haram is tantamount to fighting the imam

[51:58]himself.

[51:59]Only the imam would have the authority to say something like that.

[52:03]>> Another example is the story of say so a a great

[52:11]scholar from Iran comes to visit him.

[52:12]Uh he said that uh uh when I met with him I

[52:18]started to uh complain about some of his uh some of his

[52:22]operations so to speak in running the affairs of the Shia and

[52:28]he was specifically talking to to the about uh about and how

[52:33]the Shia are not there to defend the shrine.

[52:36]This was, you know, decades before the the shrines were the shrine

[52:40]of uh the imams uh was desecrated and and demolished.

[52:44]Uh so he said I was so aggressive with the say and

[52:49]he was so humble uh even though I was half his age

[52:51]but I started to scream and I said you're not doing anything.

[52:56]You're not uh fulfilling your responsibility towards your faith and your imam.

[53:02]When I said this, he said to me, "Look, uh, I I

[53:06]wasn't planning on showing you this, but because you mentioned this, I

[53:10]just wanted to >> to let you know that I'm not fully

[53:14]cut off from the imam." >> And then he showed him a

[53:17]piece of paper that was given to him through a person.

[53:19]>> The scholar says, uh, he didn't mention the name, but I

[53:23]I then learned who this man was.

[53:25]Apparently, he was the link between the and humble man.

[53:30]No one recognized how great he was, unassuming, >> anonymous almost.

[53:35]>> So he showed him a piece of paper with the writings

[53:40]of the imam giving him giving Abul Hassan instructions what to do,

[53:45]how to deal with with the people.

[53:46]And we have another story of Mirini as well.

[53:50]He saw the imam holding a wall preventing it from falling.

[53:56]It was during the Russian invasion of of Iran.

[53:57]And he said to him that uh sometimes you feel that uh

[54:04]you know the situation is about to uh to to explode basically

[54:10]and you know all the Shia will be killed but but we

[54:12]are present and we are fending off these >> uh attacks to

[54:19]defend you.

[54:18]>> Subhan Allah.

[54:21]There's there's no doubt again as we said earlier there are uh

[54:24]you know dozens if not hundreds of documented examples where our scholars

[54:29]and jurists uh have uh have been blessed by the imam in

[54:35]one way or another uh directly indirectly um and so it's it's

[54:38]quite common place >> can I say one thing say that maybe

[54:44]some people would say that but we have aith that says So

[54:51]when the im >> this is in by the way in the

[54:55]last the letter that the Imam wrote to his last emissary >>

[54:57]telling him that from today on the grand occultation will begin >>

[55:03]and anyone that claims that he is uh claims the >> just

[55:10]falsify his claims and uh you know tell him that you're a

[55:17]liar >> in his face.

[55:17]Uh so the question is can a scholar can someone uh access

[55:23]the IM is it possible?

[55:24]Uh the answer is twofold.

[55:26]One uh the scholars that say that we've met the imam usually

[55:32]they say it to a close confidant and then they they tell

[55:35]that person not to mention the story during their lifetime.

[55:37]>> So the story comes out after they've passed in this world.

[55:40]>> Yeah.

[55:41]so that they wouldn't benefit in any way from the story.

[55:45]>> And number two, the hadith doesn't say in the Arabic language

[55:54]means uh to say to claim that you're in constant uh communication

[56:00]with the Imam.

[56:01]>> Uh you're in touch with the imam.

[56:04]You see him, he sees you and you're communicating with the imam.

[56:08]So, so that this would give that person the authority to do

[56:11]things and then claim that the imam told him to do this.

[56:13]>> So, so in other words, it's not it's about being in

[56:20]constant communication and also it's it makes you a de facto representative

[56:24]or deputy or emissary or spokesperson for the imam.

[56:29]>> Yes.

[56:29]So, you're saying that I'm in touch with the imam and anything

[56:33]that I say and anything that I do is from the imam

[56:34]himself.

[56:36]How do we walk the tight rope of uh of honoring our

[56:45]scholars, obeying them, uh being educated by them and so on while

[56:54]at the same time not a grandizing and idolizing them.

[56:58]Uh I think that is a is another end of the extreme.

[57:05]You've got those who dismiss the scholars as, you know, impostors and

[57:08]so on.

[57:09]And then you've got those who idolize the scholars and give them

[57:13]a rank that uh is is almost on par with the imams

[57:17]themselves.

[57:18]Um how would we walk that tight rope?

[57:22]How would we address this problem?

[57:24]I remember once a great scholar uh mentioned the story of himself

[57:29]uh making a mistake a blunder uh of epic proportions compared to

[57:40]his his size and his weight.

[57:42]U he said I was speaking and um he said that uh

[57:49]I chose the wrong word in my uh in my speech and

[57:51]uh uh and when I uttered the word uh all the audience

[57:58]began to uh to laugh.

[58:03]Uh he was uh he then said that uh uh sometimes these

[58:05]things happened to us so that people wouldn't u idolize us and

[58:11]wouldn't say that you know for sure this guy meets with the

[58:18]imam >> and and righteous scholars never make this claim.

[58:21]Uh sometimes you find uh pseudo scholars, people that claim to be

[58:25]knowledgeable, but they're nowhere near uh being uh you know scholars and

[58:33]being knowledgeable.

[58:32]When someone says that you know say say convey my salams to

[58:38]the imam he would sayshallah inshallah that's that's fake.

[58:42]Uh that's why the u I remember he was once asked a

[58:49]question and he's a jurist.

[58:51]The sheh said uh I I don't know what the answer is.

[58:56]So one of his students who was sitting next to him uh

[59:01]he said the sheh is saying that I'm not mindful of the

[59:03]answer right now >> and I need to get back to >>

[59:06]or I don't remember.

[59:07]I need to check my uh my research >> my research.

[59:11]So the the sheh looked at him he said no I don't

[59:15]know the answer I am ignorant of the answer I am jah

[59:19]of the answer so they do this intentionally so that people wouldn't

[59:21]uh you know idolize them >> right so exactly I think I

[59:28]think it's important for us to strike a balance between respecting scholars

[59:33]and not just respecting them uh but ensuring that they are able

[59:39]to play those roles that we just described and talked about while

[59:43]at the same time not attributing any imam like attributes to them.

[59:52]Uh obviously we mentioned this and I think on a theoretical level

[59:56]we all understand that our scholars are not infallible.

[60:00]Uh but sometimes uh because a lot of people have these tribal

[60:04]tendencies and they want to be members of this you know elite

[60:07]group of people who follow this scholar versus that scholar.

[60:12]And so what happens is they get into this mutsing and this

[60:17]uh uh terrible terrible uh way of uh trying to uh you

[60:23]know put down their opponent's scholar but a grandizing and elevating their

[60:28]own scholar.

[60:27]And it gets to the point and I've seen this time and

[60:33]again where they manufacture absolute falsities and lies uh in the form

[60:39]of miracles and supernatural abilities and they attribute those to the scholar

[60:46]that they that they respect and follow.

[60:48]And and I I I always tell people that I am I

[60:52]am someone who considers himself to be a defender of the religious

[60:56]institution and this you know scholarly community and the jurists and whatnot

[61:01]but don't fall for this garbage right the reason we follow these

[61:05]scholars is because of their knowledge and their expertise and we follow

[61:09]them because they happen to be able to interpret and extrapolate u

[61:12]matters of creed and doctrine and law from its original sources better

[61:20]than the rest of us because they've spent their lifetimes doing this.

[61:24]We don't follow them because someone claimed that they can go through

[61:28]walls and they can perform teleportation and and and and and you

[61:32]know stuff that that is that is outward outworldly and sort of

[61:38]um uh extraordinary these extraordinary abilities.

[61:41]They're not Superman.

[61:44]They're not, you know, uh uh you know comic characters.

[61:46]These are pious people who put in the effort.

[61:51]They acquired the knowledge.

[61:50]Now they get to sit in those positions that we describe in

[61:56]order to ensure the welfare of the community.

[61:57]Nothing more, nothing less.

[61:58]>> Because the hadith says that u if you praise someone in

[62:03]in his in his face, in his presence, this is uh you're

[62:07]not you're not doing him a favor.

[62:08]>> This is uh this is not good for him.

[62:14]Um we are desperate and I think uh we need to take

[62:16]this opportunity and ask everyone whoever is watching this program to beseech

[62:22]Allah subhana wa ta'ala with desperation with absolute and utter despair and

[62:30]uh and and say um we need you uh not just for

[62:38]our personal problems but so that the community stays stays the course.

[62:43]This the community is uh protected and kept safe from the dangers

[62:48]that lurk uh at every corner.

[62:50]And inshallah with that uh we will conclude um or or let's

[62:57]conclude with dua.

[63:07]Abbyham.

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